Torque / Power XUD9 na

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

anyone got access to a torque chart
...or peak torque at which RPM
....for the XUD9 normally asp'd, fitted to my 405est.

After 6 years without a rev counter, i.e since I bought, I've worked out how to get the spare instrument panel apart, wound on the mileage appropriately and fitted it, so now have a working rev counter.

I'm unlikely to start driving the old girl much different but 'd be curious to see where peak torque is, me thinks around the 3000rpm mark

Obviously peak power at which RPM 'd be of some interest too, but less so

Fault with the rev counter was the instrument itself btw rather than the more common & easier to fix pick up on the flywheel so just haven't bothered til now, but a couple of bulbs have gone recently and I was 'in the mood to do it'

NB: appears the instruments have never been out, found Pay & Display tickets from Exmouth, 1998, under the trim which goes in front of 'em !!

[white exec]

XUD9 NA, figures as fitted to BX:
1905cc
max torque: 118Nm (87 lbf in) at 2000rpm
max power: 47kW at 4600rpm

You could check on XUD Engines Wikipedia, to see whether any power upgrades were made for 405, but I'm guessing not.

My driving memories of one of these recalls peak torque as being decently available in the 2000-2500 rpm range.
That's why these engines can go on for ever!

[CitroJim]

My driving memories of one of these recalls peak torque as being decently available in the 2000-2500 rpm range.
That's why these engines can go on for ever!

Good low-down grunt! The TD is not that much different... I reckon peak torque is at about 2500rpm and useful over 2500 - 3000rpm... I found that out experimentally towing many caravans...

Tye big difference with the TD is it will carry on past 3000rpm and it revs very freely compared to the NA. My memory of the NA is that at 3000rpm it's all over...

Not that it matters as all its talent is at lower revs and in those areas it is very talented

[daviemck2006]

I find in the berly theres little point in revving over 2500. It just makes more noise!

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

well, thanks guys, it appears I've been driving it harder than necessary, so the future could be for even better mpg (average is about 48mpg at the mo).

Have been in the habit of doing about 40mph in 3rd and a touch over 50mph in 4th when accelerating onto Dual Carriageway or Motorway. Not sure of the RPM's for those yet but suspect well in excess of 2500. Proper drive tomorrow, 'bout 100miles: planning to be somewhere between Thame and Long Crendon for the HCVS Henley to Quainton http://hcvs.co.uk/ Route sheet available.

NB: Chris, did look but couldn't find any specific power/torque figures when I checked the 'PSA XUD' page on wiki [glowing write up of it tho']

NB2: notification of these responses hit my 'Junk', hence only just noticed. Fixing that scenario next moment.

[ekjdm14]

I don't know if the characteristics of the torque convertor make a difference but Black seems to peak around 3200rpm through the gears, although I'd agree on about 2500-3000rpm being as far as it's worth pushing a manual XUD. Also the turbo XUD9 felt to me as if you wouldn't gain anything from passing 3500rpm before shifting too although obviously that was in standard trim, increased boost/fuelling may change that though.

[CitroJim]

Also the turbo XUD9 felt to me as if you wouldn't gain anything from passing 3500rpm before shifting too although obviously that was in standard trim, increased boost/fuelling may change that though.

Gabriel is standard (pump still sealed on all adjustments) and pulls very strongly up to 4000rpm...

The NA used in the autos may be a bit different on the torque curve given the pump has a kick-down timing device on it...

Else that maybe TC slip accounts for it...

Are you using the manual or the original auto-specification pump in Black following the engine change Dan?

[ekjdm14]

I'm using the manual pump just with the accelerator arm & bracket from the auto to accommodate the kickdown cable, so nothing on the fuelling side of it is from the auto... I think it must be the TC (or just a healthy breathing engine!) that helps it along... I suppose the difference in the turbo pulling further on the Xantia is down to the front mounted intercooler, my main experience of it on the ZX was with the top mount IC which can't have had great airflow & maybe the extra efficiency of the Xantia item accounts for it pulling higher up the revs. Certainly the XUD11 in the 406 seemed very happy to rev out a lot higher than the ZX too, and that also had front mount IC.

[elma]

I've had so many 1.9Td Xantias and every single one pulls strong from 2k up to 4k.
I've also had one Peugeot 306 with top mounted intercooler and it pulled well from 2k up to 4k, if anything it felt lighter and faster.
In fact every healthy standard Xud9 Turbo I've ever driven peaks out at 4k.
The Xantias all sit at 80mph at 3500rpm in 5th gear and have plenty left to get them over 100 without changing down.

If I had one peaking at less than 4000rpm I would be wondering if the pump was adding enough diesel for the turbo or if I had an air leak. I'd want to know my waste gate actuator, pipes, lda pin and any other components associated with the turbo boost/fuelling were in good working order. Or I'd know it was an NA and I'd got confused reading the previous posts .

[ekjdm14]

haha, the ZX definitely had a turbo James. It was running a lucas pump though and never smoked so highly likely it wasn't fuelling enough at higher revs.

[CitroJim]

I had a 405 TD with the top-mount intercooler Dan, It was OK when moving but stop for any length of time and it suffered terribly from heat-soak... It was just like the turbo had been temporarily removed...

The Xantia front-mount is far better

[elma]

Aah thats interesting.
Although the Lucas now has a tarnished reputation post veg oil revolution I've always found it to be a brilliant pump.
I've had one die but it was no surprise given what the previous owner had done to it.
Other than that I think they are simple and reliable.
I reckon you were underfueling or losing boost though, XUDs go to 4 then stop, anything different is tuned, broken or just weird.
One of the big steps in the XUD tuning guides is lose the top mount intercooler and get one off of a Jap car fitted at the front.

Speaking of intercoolers they just don't make sense to me.
Apparantly they are to take the heat out of the air that compressing it puts in.
So why not use a charge cooler after the turbo instead, surely this will be more effective in delivering the coolest possible compressed air to the engine.
Is inter cooling much more reliable? Its no cheaper. Everyone I know who has a proper high performance turbo or Supercharged car has a charge cooler not an intercooler fitted which is why I wonder.

[white exec]

"So why not use a charge cooler after the turbo instead, surely this will be more effective in delivering the coolest possible compressed air to the engine."

SFAIK, both intercoolers (air-to-air) and charge coolers (air-to-air or air-to-liquid) are placed where you say: after the turbo.

The Citroen XM 2.5TD is equipped with a Valeo air-to-liquid charge cooler, with heat removed by the generous pair of radiators and cooling system. Citroen claim it is more efficient than an air-to-air cooler, and rate it as providing a typical induction air temp of 60degC for the engine. It certainly works, with the engine providing the same high level of torque across a large operating range.

[elma]

I had to go and do some reading.
I've been very misled and they both do indeed go between the turbo and the engine. Should've paid more attention to the turbo pipes on my xuds!

The terms are interchangeable but intercooler is incorrect. Intercooler comes from aviation engines where multiple superchargers were used. The charge air coolers between the superchargers were called intercoolers because of their location between the superchargers. The last one, after the final supercharger was called an aftercooler. They were both charge air coolers, just the location dictated the name.

So my thoughts were irrelevant, intercooling is done as I thought it should be and I was talked into believing nonsense. The name intercooler or charge cooler is also irrelevant as they are all charge coolers. The only cars that actually may have intercoolers are those with multiple turbos but they don't necessarily.

Whilst reading it did seem to me that air to air charge coolers are generally referred to as intercoolers and liquid to air ones as charge coolers. Again this is incorrect, they are both charge air coolers and the location still dictates the name.

I'm just going to call them intercoolers anyway or I'll confuse people. I thought the aero engine bit was quite interesting though and we'll worth spending 20minutes to find out.

[CitroJim]

The whole point of having a cool induction is that cool air is denser and carries more oxygen...

I, during my athletic activities, note this especially whilst swimming... I swim much faster and easier in cool water with cool air just above it. We early morning swimmers dread a warm pool - as it often is after the weekend on a Monday morning - as it's like swimming through treacle!

All of my PBs have been achieved, whether in running, swimming or cycling, in cool or cold weather...

Now, if someone could invent an intercooler for athletes then that would be brilliant!