Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Moderator: RichardW
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Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Our venerable 2003 Berlingo has started to play up on colder mornings - when I switch on the ignition, side lights (and sometimes wipers) switch on, and engine turns but won't start (not even a hint of starting - no fuel?). But after standing in the sun for a couple of hours she starts fine - no problems at all. Similarly, on cool evenings we've sometimes been stranded. I had initially suspected dampness/condensation, but she's unaffected by rain - definitely an ambient temperature thing. Dealership were useless - I guess they couldn't replicate the fault, as they ended up saying she's low on compression and needs a new engine first, before they can look further(!). HELP!
Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
From the odd electrical symptoms, maybe there's some damp got into in the BSI that's getting driven out by the heat inside the car?
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Yes, I have been thinking about damp in the BSI... but the car started first flick of the switch today at 08.00am, in rather humid conditions after the car had been rained on all night, so I'm rather doubtful now. Is the BSI the black box under the right hand dash - behind a pullout panel? Seems bone dry in there. (I have checked all the drains around the bottom of the windscreen, just in case.) Is it possible to open the BSI, so I can put a silica gel sachet in there?
I was wondering, is there a temperature sensor/switch somewhere that would be actuated around 10-15C? Could that be causing an earth fault resulting in these symptoms?
I was wondering, is there a temperature sensor/switch somewhere that would be actuated around 10-15C? Could that be causing an earth fault resulting in these symptoms?
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Could the battery be on its way out, resulting in the funny symptoms when the glow plugs may activate at cooler temperatures? First point of call for me would be to make sure the battery is healthy and fully charged before looking for an actual fault. Hopefully this and maybe a clean of the terminals will be the extent of the problem
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
I should perhaps have mentioned, we changed the battery (and glow plugs are quite new, too) - made no difference at all.
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Check the valve clearances when it's (stone) cold. Odds on you will find there is no gap on the exhausts....
Richard W
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'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Agreed, that's the next check on a 1.9D with good battery and plugs.
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Thank you RichardW and ekjdm14. Looking around various forums I see that exhaust valves clearance is a common cause of cold starting problems, albeit on rather higher mileage engines (she had a replacement nearly-new engine at 65k, so current engine has done about 100k). But how would that explain the associated electrical "crazies"? When she does start, she fires instantly (and no electrical weirdness), but when she's not going to start the dash and headlights turn themselves on, and the wiper too sometimes, and there is no whiff of fuel in the exhaust at all.
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'03 206 1.9TD - home-built veg-fuelled B-road bruiser
'99 306 SE 2.0i cabriolet - 92k awaiting service work ready for next summer
'97 306 XS 1.6i 3 door, Bianca White, from dead 12 years & seized solid to road legal in 7 days - x 212
Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
True, I had forgotten about the electrical gremlins associated with the non start. Still worth checking so you know where you stand with them all the same.
I would probably be looking at the integrity of the battery connections and in particular the main power & earth leads too since PSA were never known for the quality of their heavy wiring and terminals.
It might be worth trying an additional earth by way of a jump lead between battery and engine block on one of the mornings it does funny things & see if that's any help. I suggest the earth since the GP relay would have a separate positive cable so IMO wouldn't tend to 'drag down' a poor positive supply to other systems. Do check all the wiring though if the extra earth doesn't help since positive leads aren't immune to bad connections.
Hope this makes some sort of sense, I'm shattered after today!
I would probably be looking at the integrity of the battery connections and in particular the main power & earth leads too since PSA were never known for the quality of their heavy wiring and terminals.
It might be worth trying an additional earth by way of a jump lead between battery and engine block on one of the mornings it does funny things & see if that's any help. I suggest the earth since the GP relay would have a separate positive cable so IMO wouldn't tend to 'drag down' a poor positive supply to other systems. Do check all the wiring though if the extra earth doesn't help since positive leads aren't immune to bad connections.
Hope this makes some sort of sense, I'm shattered after today!
'95 Xantia LX 1.9D-auto, Black, 109k
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
'03 206 GTi180 94k in surgery
'03 206 1.1S XUD9TE/veg project
'99 306 2.0SE cabriolet 95k summer toy
'97 306 XS 1.6i 99k sat 12 years, fixed in 7 days, 150mile maiden voyage
Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Checking the battery earth connections to the engine makes sense, there have been a few cases of gremlins / problems after clutch changes.
Not exactly the fault you're seeing but thought it may be of interest:
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic95 ... x#bm113343
Not exactly the fault you're seeing but thought it may be of interest:
http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic95 ... x#bm113343
Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
The wipers & headlights coming on means the BSI has lost communication with the com2000 unit. The transponder aerial is in the com2000 so if the com2000 is not talking to the BSI it wont start.
The mk 2 berlingo is prone to getting water in the BSI, especially if the windscreen has been changed at some point. You wont be able to tell just by looking at it. You have to physically remove the BSI & split the casing open to check it properly & all the pins in the connectors too.
The mk 2 berlingo is prone to getting water in the BSI, especially if the windscreen has been changed at some point. You wont be able to tell just by looking at it. You have to physically remove the BSI & split the casing open to check it properly & all the pins in the connectors too.
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Not long ago, our Xantia refused to start (instantly). Panel lights all came on, but she wouldn't crank. Found the cause, the bonnet stay had hooked on the earth lead (and slightly loosened it) - loosened the clamp, put it back on properly and tightened. Tried again BINGO!, then cursed, the ABS light was on - ECU had a hissy fit because of the interference from the sparking connection.
I'd check for a poor earth from engine to body, and perhaps treat the BSI connection to some WD40 - it does wonders for the notorious ABS multi-plug/socket on S1 Xantias.
I'd check for a poor earth from engine to body, and perhaps treat the BSI connection to some WD40 - it does wonders for the notorious ABS multi-plug/socket on S1 Xantias.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
Thank you for the various comments - it hasn't been cold enough overnight for the problem to manifest itself since I last posted, but I suspect it may indeed be a "dampness in the BSI" problem, going by the symptoms. Windscreen was replaced a couple of years ago, and I have never been 100% convinced by the replacement job (screen sort of rattles in the bottom right corner when driving on rough surfaces?). Anyway, until/unless the problem reappears, I guess it may be best to leave it alone (if it ain't broken, don't fix it...).
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Re: Berlingo 1.9D refuses to go on cooler mornings!
I'd still be inclined, at very least, to check & clean all the BSI connections.
Citroens:-
'81 2CV Club
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others:-
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& the numerous "abandoned projects"
'81 2CV Club
'05 C15
'97 Xantia Exclusive estate
others:-
Jeep XJ Cherokees x 3
'96 Cadillac Eldorado
'99 Cadillac STS
& the numerous "abandoned projects"