Nissan Leaf powered Citroen

[sisu]

I have a 2012 Nissan Leaf and am taking everything from it and putting it into a 72 Citroen SM that doesn't have an engine/gearbox or salvagable interior. By everything, I mean everything, the wiring loom, charger, ecu's, switching, dash components, battery, motor, from the Leaf.

The reason I would like your advice is that I need to keep the Nissan Leaf/juke/early 350z brakes and hubs, ABS senders, calipers, rotors as the info is used to charge on regen and operate the handbrake.
But I would like to retain the Citroen hydractive Spheres. It will be a stand alone system and doesn't need to power the brakes or steering. In your experience is the later XM, Xantia or C5 suspension any better and what would you chose as the front SM suspension will be removed as the Nissan lower arms and Macpherson strut towers will be used.
So this is why I am looking at the later Citroen Hydractive systems as this isn't a restoration. What is the operating movement of the suspension and do they need to be run in any particular orientation as I may use pushrods.
I am open to suggestions and this is a bit of a clean sheet, I would like your input from all the trials and tribulations you have had.

[Hell Razor5543]

You are going to need some way of keeping the system under pressure. I believe that the Citroen hydro-pneumatic system runs at 3,000PSI, as it has to safely support the weight of the vehicle. Unless you are confident with electronics I would suggest you avoid the C5 system, as there are a lot of electronics involved. The six sphere system used on the Xantia is entirely mechanically driven (as far as I know the only electronics monitor the level in the reservoir, and the pressure (if the level or the pressure drop below thresholds the STOP light comes on)).

Good luck, and I KNOW your progress will be watched with interest.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Now that conversion will be fascinating. If you choose to document and record it here on the FCF it would be excellent

Hopefully plenty of willing help and assistance from the assembled throng here, and put me down for a test drive of the finished project.

Good luck

Regards Neil

[sisu]

Is the C5 pump electrically driven? I noticed that Jerry Hathaway's trailer for his land speed SM was running a fully electric system.
The Xantia sounds like a plan.

[white exec]

Yes, a fascinating project, but one with a three-pronged set of problems: (a) presumably a lack of readily-available SM spares for mods and dealing with mishaps, (b) the challenge of implanting the Leaf power and drive components, and lastly (c) the disadvantageous weight of the SM for the chosen (Leaf) power plant.

Anything is do-able, of course, if you're determined enough!

If I were trying to create a Citroen fluidly suspended electric vehicle, I'd think I'd be choosing either the supremely comfortable and infinitely less complex BX, with its huge weight advantage. Ignoring weight, XM (or Xantia) would be my second choice.

[Stickyfinger]

A Dutch guy fitted a C5 electric pump to a Xantia reportedly....

[sisu]

You should look into it in the UK as the cost of the used Nissan Leafs are coming down to around £7000 for a driveble car and accident damaged ones are even cheaper. I bought my Leaf from Germany as it has a winter pack but they are made in Sunderland.
I am just in the preperation stage at the moment as i want to get the Citroen rust free and the suspension modifications done before I take apart the Leaf and do the cut out for the battery in the floor. I will use the Leaf firewall in sections to mount the components from the leaf.
This is what got me inspired as Rob took the plunge a couple of years ago.
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sh ... 48730.html

[xantia_v6]

I think that you will have a few challenges.

The SM has double wishbone front suspension, so there is no structure to hold the top of a suspension strut, and if you want hydraulic suspension you will need to keep the SM double wishbones, or fit Xantia/XM/C5 struts, as your Nissan struts would be completely unsuitable for the hydraulic system.

You asked whether later Citroen suspension systems are better. The only real improvement was with the introduction of Hydractive suspension on the XM, which was also fitted to high-spec Xantias and C5s. This definitely gives a softer ride and better handling (which the SM could surely use), and a few people have retrofitted the XM/Xantia system to SMs.

[elma]

I don't think you could use the strut from the leaf. It's a prity important part of the suspension. Why is it necessary? Are there sensors?

I think I'd investigate using a Xantia for parts as the older cars, are rarer. Adding the complexity of C5 parts for me would be an issue.

[GiveMeABreak]

Is the C5 pump electrically driven? I noticed that Jerry Hathaway's trailer for his land speed SM was running a fully electric system.
The Xantia sounds like a plan.

Yes, it uses a BHI, combining the ECU and Electric pump. Go electrical or mechanical as you may have issues trying to combine the different systems.

[ekjdm14]

This sounds really interesting, hope to hear/see lots more on this project as it progresses. And nice choice too to save a (fire damaged? or not?) SM and the electric conversion, while complex and doubtless will cause swearing and head scratching in equal measure, means not having to source rare & expensive original parts so may even work out less of a headache overall than a restoration. It'll certainly be cheaper although by how much I'm not sure.

If you plan to retain the Hydro suspension as a stand-alone as you say then I think you could do worse than look into some hydraulic pumps/control kit from the modified car community. they're quite common now not just for bouncing low riders, but also as a solution for quick ride height adjustment on lots of different cars & I'm sure one of those kits could be adapted to work well while retaining some height adjustability. Or if adjustability isn't an issue, perhaps adopt a similar setup to BL Hydragas cars except with LHM pumped into the pipework.

[xantia_v6]

Is the C5 pump electrically driven? I noticed that Jerry Hathaway's trailer for his land speed SM was running a fully electric system.
The Xantia sounds like a plan.

Yes, it uses a BHI, combining the ECU and Electric pump. Go electrical or mechanical as you may have issues trying to combine the different systems.

Do you know how much of the C5 electrical system would be required to get a stand-alone HA3+ system working?

[GiveMeABreak]

Quite a bit I suspect. All the data from the height correctors, steering angle sensor, possibly the accelerometer & brake switch and also the ABS sensors too. Then there are the reference heights and the BSI working with the BHI to make constant corrections. For the X7 there are 2 height correctors on 4 cylinder models, but 4 inputs on 6 cyl models, one on each wheel. Just the 2 though on MkI and MkII models. There may be a few other things, but it will be the software needed in the ECUs to make it all work. So from this perspective, a purely mechanical pre-hydractive setup might be better as mentioned, like the BX or similar.

[white exec]

I think this is a crazy project, obviously not thought through as yet.

Keeping any one of the complex Citroens you mention - XM, Xantia, C5 - in full operational condition is a challenge, and requires a really good understanding of how they work, plus copious mechanical and electrical documentation. Swapping parts between these vehicles is complex enough (read this and other forums) let alone building up from scratch. As stated above, later C5 is a hazard area all of its own.

It will certainly fill your hours (and months), and the end result could be quite disappointing, unless you rethink the essential battery capacity. Small car power plant in a large and heavy vehicle is not a good recipe.

Good luck with it all.

[GiveMeABreak]

I have to agree Chris, a challenge is a good thing, but I wouldn't underestimate the technical complexities involved.