xantia hdi starter motor

[c.morewood]

Here's a strange one. On the w reg, young, Xantia, which has up to now been 100% reliable over the past 9k miles, threw a wobbly in Friday night. It had been working perfectly all day, but at midnight, when,I had to go and pick up my wife from work. The starter refused to work. Everything else came on, all the usual lights and pump noises, but no starter. I tried the 5th gear trick of turning the engine over by rocking it back and forwards but still nothing. I left it yesterday due to the rain and tried it again this morning and she started as usual. I've looked over the forum but cant find anything like it. I've had nothing like this from,the "old" xantia. She's still on her original starter at 306k. Any ideas?

[KennyW]

Chris,

The starter motor is sticking, I've used a hammer and extension bar to give a solid thump and that usually solves the problem.

It is caused by water or fine muck ingress into the motor but is also worth checking the thingy ( memory blank) attached to the starter, they can cause issues.

Worth checking the supply from the battery and earthing.

Kenny

[electronmirror]

" the thingy ( memory blank) attached to the starter"

that would be the solenoid 'thingy'

[c.morewood]

I was wondering about the solenoid or earth. Strange that it should free up on its own. Maybe temp/humidity is a factor?
Thanks.

[KennyW]

Thanks Ted,

I'm having more of these moments !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris, I would check the 'thingy' as they don't like water or muck as well.

Kenny

[c.morewood]

Thanks Kenny/Ted, Been busy with Mothers for the past few days.
I've been trying to find online a picture /diagram of the Hdi engine which shows the position of the starter motor. I took the covers off a couple of days ago for a quick look but couldn't find anything that looked like the starter. I'm assuming its buried behind something else? Anyone got a decent diagram?
Hows the "French" Hdi going Kenny? Glad you didn't scrap her?

[Hell Razor5543]

If it is anything like my Mk1 C5 HDi (and mickeymoons' Berlingo) the starter motor is quite high up the engine, hidden under the air filter box.

[c.morewood]

Thanks James. I just needed somewhere to start looking.

[KennyW]

Chris,

A friend has been using it for the past year. He is mechanic by trade, loves the fuel economy, the sharpness of the brakes and of course the ride quality. But the same problem keeps appearing at MOT time, the brake efficiency. We haven't figured out the reason.

Kenny

[Hell Razor5543]

I got a reconditioned starter motor from GSF (Bosch). Although it cost around £120, I got back about half when I returned the failed motor in the packaging the 'new' motor came in. You may also need to make up a short lead, for the starter solenoid. The old motor may have a ring connector threaded rod (and not much cable length), while the new motor could use a spade connector. I had this happen to me (as did mickeymoon).

[c.morewood]

Its so obvious when I looked at the young ones engine. there clear as day with the gold coloured solenoid. On the older one which I looked at initially I couldn't distinguish the starter at all. She's been completely reliable since that one episode.. strange. I'll add another cable as you suggest James.
Kenny, Is that brake efficiency on the rear? On a new MOT automatic test bed? I have the same problems , trying to make the rear brakes work. I resorted to using several breeze blocks and the tester got his pals and myself to sit in the back seat to add weight.. Another trick is to let a small amount of air out of the tyres .5-1 bar, just for the test. That will increase the contact patch..hope this helps.

[KennyW]

Yes Chris the rear. It's through it need new pads anyway so that help it pass.

[Hell Razor5543]

The Xantia has this useful foible of only using the back brakes to the degree they need to (and the amount of weight in the back has an effect on this) and this is why the rear tyres normally fail through perishing and not wear. The first time I had to get a Xantia MoT'ed she initially failed, as the back brakes had insufficient stopping power. I explained to the examiner about the issue, and we had a couple of guys (myself and a mechanic) sit in the back, and the examiner saw the braking power improve. No retest required, as he still had the forms open on the computer.

Chris, if you do get a reconditioned motor, watch out for a spacer on one of the three securing bolts. It is not a part of the starter motor (well, my reconditioned one did not come with it), and you will need to transfer it across, as otherwise the motor will not line up properly (which could damage the starter motor and flywheel teeth). As the wire only carries an amp or two it does not need to be heavy duty.

[myglaren]

Anyone tried putting the suspension on the highest setting and testing the rear brakes?

[Hell Razor5543]

Well, I did (when I had a Xantia) include braking in the Citrobics routine. Hand brake on, full service height, wait a minute (to allow for things to settle down), then foot hard on foot brake, lowest height, wait a minute (or until cramp sets in!), release the foot brake and hang on (as the car will now drop rapidly), wait another minute, foot hard on foot brake, full service height, wait another minute, release the foot brake (rub your head where you banged it in the ceiling), and repeat.