bag of spanners

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moizeau
(Donor 2022)
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Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
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AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 314

bag of spanners

Post by moizeau »

I apologise for the re-post, but it ended up in Xantia.
The problem isn't

Starts instantly
Doesn't cut out
Normal above 1700 rpm

The problem is

Starts from cold instantly, but sounds rough
Within 10/20 secs it ticks over at 1200rpm then drops to 1000 every 1/2 a second
Sounds like a bag of spanners until the revs go above 1700, then sweet

What I've done

Changed to manual cut off and throttle arm seals

Why?

Because when the throttle arm was moved vertically it changed the revs. I now know ( after taking it's top off) that this is simply due to it operating the cam inside the pump. Also there is no diesel leak from the throttle arm.

Tomorrow I'm going to try a gravity fed diesel tank.

Questions for the more experienced

Where would you look?
Would a knackered pump only play up at low revs
Would knackered injector(s) only play up at low revs

Any suggestion gratefully received

Otherwise with the need to sort a minor hydraulic leak, do a cam belt, couple of drop arms, rocker cover gasket etc, it may be time for the bin. Which would be a shame, it's only done 190K and a bought it a new dipstick today from the tat yard to stop it throwing oil all over the front of the engine. Maybe it was trying to hide it's real leaks!
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
Richard_C
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My Cars: C4 Picasso 1.6 Blue Hdi 120 Manual Excl+ 2016
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Re: bag of spanners

Post by Richard_C »

Crankshaft position sensor? Maybe (if you are dead lucky) just the connector to it got a bit damp or corroded. The XUDs will run with it faulty but sound horrible.
Richard_C

Current: , C4 Picasso 120 BlueHdi, C3 1.2 Auto
Past Citroens: Dyane (x2), 2CV, Visa, BX (x2), Xantia, Xsara Picasso, C3 (x2) C5 X7 Tourer, Synergie 1.9TD, C1
Others: Hillman Hunter, Cortina Mk 1, Maxi, VW Type 2, Granada, SAAB 900, SAAB 9-5, R5 Gordini
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moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 314

Re: bag of spanners

Post by moizeau »

Thanks for the advice, I'll have a look
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 314

Re: bag of spanners

Post by moizeau »

Sorted
Bloody wax stat was sticking, but only partial, seen it the other way round when it wouldn't increase the revs when cold, but a first this way round when it keeps it 'up a bit'. Seen it with the stop solenoid both ways, but not the wax stat. (If that's the right term)


For anyone else out there running old girls with old tech
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
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CitroJim
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Re: bag of spanners

Post by CitroJim »

Waxstats have always been very unreliable :twisted:

the vacuum operated system that replaced it was not much better either!!!
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 314

Re: bag of spanners

Post by moizeau »

Not sorted. The wax stat was a slight red herring. It improved but then over the next couple of weeks went back to the original problem, gradually getting worse until it started bellowing white smoke on tickover and becoming hard to start. Checked the timing holes (all 3) at the weekend and they lined up. Took the belt off to replace it and found that the crankshaft timing pinion was 'loose' on the shaft once the aux belt pulley was removed. The bolt was FT, to the point that it was unscrewed with the help of the starter motor. Once the pinion was removed I noticed that the woodruff key is broken in 3 pieces with the centre part still stuck in the pinion and the slot in the pinion is about twice it's normal size allowing the timing to vary by a tooth. Possibly the reason why the tickover was all over the place, but once under load and higher revs all was good. Does anyone know how far out the timing needs to be to bend a valve? XUD7te in a BX TZD. I now need to source another pinion and put it back together just to see if any damage has been done. So the expense and time may be for nothing. The reason I ask is that I flattened the battery when trying to start it and when I jumped it off the 406 it seemed to turn over a bit quick.
Also do all the XUDs share the same pinion? Mine has a recess bored in it's outer face and the other ones I've seen don't.
Thanks in advance

Edit, just cleaned the pinion up and the key isn't in 3 pieces, it's broken in half , the half nearest the aux pulley merrily wandered along the keyway trying to escape via the aux pulley.
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
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CitroJim
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x 6137
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Re: bag of spanners

Post by CitroJim »

Timing need only be a tiny amount out to really upset running. It is very critical. A worn woodruff key slot/key will definitely upset running.

A tooth out is enough to potentially allow piston to kiss valve...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Old-Guy
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My Cars: 2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: bag of spanners

Post by Old-Guy »

CitroJim wrote:A tooth out is enough to potentially allow piston to kiss valve...


And if one does, it sounds like a gone big-end - horrendous.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
User avatar
moizeau
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12 Jan 2015, 16:08
Location: France 36
My Cars: 91 BX TZD Estate. Dead but loved
407 HDI 136 auto
C4 2l petrol coupé
2010 Dispatch III HDI 90
AND a 1980 Z1000ST
AND a 1983 GPz1100 inj
AND a 1995 Zephyr 1100
AND a 1980 Z650 (my moped)
x 314

Re: bag of spanners

Post by moizeau »

Tat yard tomorrow then, found one new but I don't want to spend 40 euros on something that may never turn in anger. 'Thanks' if that's the word, for confirming my fears. If the head is shot then it will time for the poubelle. Hope not but we'll see.
Pete
Notice the BX is still top the list but sadly gone
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