Activa & V6 coolant changes.

[handyman]

Time now to do a coolant change in the V6, Activa & 307.

Any members experience of using waterless coolants? I'm particulary interested in using this in the V6 & Activa if it solves cooling issues. Neither car gets a lot of use so something less prone to evaporation or leakage would be advantageous.

Whats with OAT coolants? Are they suitable for these older engines?

[daviemck2006]

I need to watch this as the coolant on my activa is looking ready for a change.

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[Stickyfinger]

The V6 Es9j engine cools perfectly with no problems. It needs only a flush (or 2 if switching to OAT) and then filling with a quality standard pre-mixed liquid, or the use of distilled water/additive to the correct % mix. I see no advantage in waterless coolant which is less effective anyway.

Anti Freeze is not just Anti-Freeze, it is a Anti Corrosion/antifreeze additive.

[CitroJim]

What cooling issues have you with an Activa then Handyman? I ask as I've never had any with any of mine...

The only thing I'll say is they generate plenty of heat and the fans are keen to run but that heat soon dissipates.

Mine uses not a spot of coolant...

If yours gets hot I'll wager the rad will be blocked with general debris.. When I last swapped a rad in an Activa it look like it was wearing a black fur coat!

[daviemck2006]

I was going to flush mine with clean tap water and then fill with standard premixed blue coolant

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[CitroJim]

I was going to flush mine with clean tap water and then fill with standard premixed blue coolant

That's normally fine Davie... I don't even bother to flush if the old coolant comes out looking clean and clear...

[Mandrake]

Time now to do a coolant change in the V6, Activa & 307.

Any members experience of using waterless coolants? I'm particulary interested in using this in the V6 & Activa if it solves cooling issues. Neither car gets a lot of use so something less prone to evaporation or leakage would be advantageous.

As others have said, what cooling issues have you had on the V6 ? Are you losing coolant, or is it overheating ?

For leaks, the number one problem the V6 always gets is a leak at the seam of the coolant expansion bottle. This can start off very subtle where it will only lose a small amount of coolant when the system is hot and under full pressure - you won't "see" any leak, but the giveaway is staining around the seam of the bottle - if you see any staining at all around the seam, it is done and needs replacing. Sometimes the staining might be only on the rear side of the bottle where it's hard to see. They only last on average about 20k before failing !!

The second most common problem would be leaky heater matrix, which I have also had. In my case a bottle of Forte seems to have stopped the heater matrix dripping but may have had an unintended side effect, so beware...I've also had a leaky radiator on mine although that was fairly obvious when it happened and is easily replaced.

BTW evaporation shouldn't be possible as it is a sealed air tight system - if you are getting evaporation then you have a leak...and if you are getting leakage you also have a leak! Changing to a non-water coolant is not the answer to this and not an alternative to fixing the leaks. You shouldn't lose any coolant at all in a properly functioning cooling system.

If your problem is overheating then a possibility is a sticking thermostat - I just replaced the thermostat on mine because it was intermittently overheating quite badly - turns out there was some corrosion bonded onto the sliding section of the thermostat to cause it to stick closed! (and open sometimes) You might find this an interesting read from this post onwards:

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 90#p519450

To cut to the chase, changing the thermostat on the V6 is a complete pig of a job.

Whats with OAT coolants? Are they suitable for these older engines?

You'll get differing opinions on this, the main issue with switching to OAT is that you have to flush the old coolant out really thoroughly as you can't afford to have old and new mix or they can congeal and do nasty things to small waterways... doing this flushing properly and thoroughly is actually quite a big job as really you should drain the block completely and also the heater matrix! (and you really don't want to go tampering with the heater matrix connectors)

OAT is mainly about increasing the service life of the coolant during the first few years of the cars life so that dealers can get away with less servicing. There aren't really any other advantages than less frequent service intervals for coolant changes.

When you can by traditional silicate based coolant ready mixed for under £15 for 10 litres and only need to change it every 2 years (instead of about 4 years for OAT) I reckon it's easier to stick with the original specification and just make sure you change it every 2 years on the dot.

[Dommo]

It sounds like waterless coolant might be a good thing then, if V6's suffer popped expansion bottles. Waterless coolant doesn't corrode (no water!) and nor does it expand (as it doesn't start to boil) so it greatly reduces pressure on hoses, expansion tanks, and dare I say it, heater matrix's.

It might be a good idea in our fragile Xantia's you know...... It's getting me thinking anyway!

[Mandrake]

It sounds like waterless coolant might be a good thing then, if V6's suffer popped expansion bottles. Waterless coolant doesn't corrode (no water!) and nor does it expand (as it doesn't start to boil) so it greatly reduces pressure on hoses, expansion tanks, and dare I say it, heater matrix's.

Umm, water doesn't have to boil to expand.. It expands while it is still water, and if it is under pressure it can heat up and expand even further without boiling than in a non pressurised system.

Do you have any references that say this waterless coolant doesn't expand when it heats up ? Most liquids do, so I'd be quite surprised if this was true. If it still expands with heat the system will still generate pressure against the air pocket in the expansion chamber.

[Hell Razor5543]

The problem with water is the weird property it has when it gets down to 4C. AFAIK it is the ONLY liquid that expands when it gets colder (from 4C to 0C, and then it contracts again).

[Dommo]

It sounds like waterless coolant might be a good thing then, if V6's suffer popped expansion bottles. Waterless coolant doesn't corrode (no water!) and nor does it expand (as it doesn't start to boil) so it greatly reduces pressure on hoses, expansion tanks, and dare I say it, heater matrix's.

Umm, water doesn't have to boil to expand.. It expands while it is still water, and if it is under pressure it can heat up and expand even further without boiling than in a non pressurised system.

Do you have any references that say this waterless coolant doesn't expand when it heats up ? Most liquids do, so I'd be quite surprised if this was true. If it still expands with heat the system will still generate pressure against the air pocket in the expansion chamber.

Apart from this marketing blurb, I've not looked into it further. However I have a feeling that Edd China said a similar thing on an episode of Wheeler Dealers in the past:

http://www.evanscoolant.com/how-it-work ... -pressure/

[Deanxm]

waterless coolant is very attractive, it wont cause corrosion, will last about 20 years, resists cavitation far better than water, completely harmless to the environment, boils at a very high (160c ish) temp so you can undo the rad cap when hot with no issues (not sure why you would) and doesnt evapourate, i think it also has less than half the expansion of water too, its much easier on the rads and hoses as the coolant system isnt going through cycles of expansion and contraction all the time because there is also no need to have a sealed system to prevent boiling.
A lot of people who have it swear by it and would never go back and it does sound attractive, i would love to use it on the V6 engine when it goes in the XM but there is one issue, cost! i think the xm takes something like 10ltrs which is a lot when your paying £20 a litre for the prep fluid and the same again for the coolant that adds up to n astonishing amount of money!

D

[CitroJim]

What's the chemical composition of waterless coolant?

[white exec]

To find out the chemical composition of any commercial product, just go to the web and find its MSDS sheet. All (chemically based) products are required to have and publish/provide these. It will give the chemical composition of the product, as well as storage and handling cautions.

Suspect any company/product that refuses to provide this information. (We have had issues with one, over diesel fuel additives.) The information can also be useful in determining the differences between ostensibly identical products, and making intelligent guesses at who might make what.

Last time I looked up a couple of so-called 'waterless coolants', I found the major constituent of both was . . . water.

[Deanxm]

Dont be so cynical, ive just checked and its mostly Aqua so not a drop of water in site lol

I woud guess it doesnt contain much water as the instructions are very clear on making sure no (extra?) water is present in the system before filling but if it looks wet and feels wet the chances are......

D