Dump Your Deezel

This is the place for posts that don't fit into any other category.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13930
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1371

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

andy5 wrote:
07 Nov 2019, 20:29
When are they going to fit catalytic converters on all the country's gas central heating, which emits about twice as much oxides of nitrogen than diesel cars?

Even worse in central London, 38% of NO2 comes from heating.
Posted this up on Energy Matters Global and Domestic. Writing is on the wall for gas boilers in new homes. Even talk of pumping a % of Hydrogen through the existing grid to kick start a "hydrogen" industry in some think tank reports.
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
12 Jun 2019, 19:38
Seems a long way off but from 2025, any new homes built will not be heated by gas boilers. (unless that gas is Hydrogen maybe)

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gas- ... -s7kbtb6jq

Lets hope the Gas Boiler Manufacturers are a bit more on the ball than the Auto Industry in recognising that a significant change is on the way.

Regards Neil

User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 19079
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 1277

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by myglaren »

They'll do it when mine dies at Christmas and have a new one slotted in :(

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 8240
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 347

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Mandrake »

myglaren wrote:
07 Nov 2019, 11:35
While I agree that electric cars have a lot going for them I am unconvinced that they are as good as claimed considering the pollution caused by the generation of electricity - currently - and the increased demand that they cause, combined with the pollution caused in the building of them.
Just shifting the problem out of sight of the majority.
You can be unconvinced if you like but peer reviewed research shows that even with today's energy mix in the UK of about 60% gas generation EV's generate far less pollution per mile than a Petrol / Diesel car, and what pollution might be caused where power is generated is a long way from the streets and neighbourhoods where we spend our time breathing, so the concentration levels are a lot lower than the overall reduction in total pollution levels might suggest.

The fact that many localities like schools have "no idling" signs and you can be fined by the police for idling a parked car unnecessarily makes it clear that local concentrations of pollution are just as important if not more important than overall globally averaged levels of pollution - which are actually very low when ou consider all the uninhabited or sparsely inhabited parts of the world.

As for pollution building an EV - ICE vehicles generate a lot of pollution during their manufacture too, so it's unfair to count one and not the other. Most CO2/pollution generation during the production and delivery of a car is common to both EV's and ICE vehicles, including the manufacturing of raw materials like steel, power and heating at factories where cars are made, transportation of cars from the factory to the owner (EV's are still delivered by Diesel powered ships and lorries - today anyway..) and so on. There is some pollution in the mining of raw materials for batteries of course but expect that to eventually reduce when recycling of the raw materials like Lithium from old batteries supplies a large proportion of the raw materials to make new batteries. At the moment new batteries are made almost entirely of newly mined minerals as there aren't enough old batteries yet for a recycling ecosystem to take off.

Minerals for battery production have the potential to become a largely closed cycle eventually, unlike drilling for oil, refining it into petrol and Diesel and burning it in the atmosphere, where you start with crude oil under the ground and end up with CO2 and pollutants in the atmosphere which do NOT end up being converted back into crude oil again on any sort of human timescale, so is effectively an open cycle.

User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 19079
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 14:30
x 1277

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by myglaren »

I wouldn't dispute that Simon but it looks to me as though they want us to think that BEVs are the solution to all problems but they are just shifting the pollution elsewhere.
Agreed that EVs and ICEs have similar levels of pollution in manufacture but ditching perfectly decent ICE cars which have very low levels of pollution to replace them with new EVs is not addressing the problem correctly, just like the ridiculous scrappage scheme.

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 6414
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1083

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

Don't underestimate the health damage resulting from urban air pollution.
Not just London, but much worse in Delhi, Beijing, Los Angeles. We have to get ICEs off our city streets a.s.a.p.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13930
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1371

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

white exec wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 08:02
Don't underestimate the health damage resulting from urban air pollution.
Not just London, but much worse in Delhi, Beijing, Los Angeles. We have to get ICEs off our city streets a.s.a.p.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-50298972

Many factors contributing to the terrible levels of pollution in Dehli and chief amongst the current factors is the burning of stubble in the surrounding area in spite of apparent government "banning" of such activity.

In India electrifying transport is dependant on it being available to the masses and that means it has to be cheap. India no doubt has its rich elite and Audi will sell a few E-trons, and Tesla some Model X's and Jaguar some I-paces. Change is more likely to be precipitated by electric rickshaws, and the so far non-existant "affordable" to all electric car.
Entertainment Value only....Who will save the world? The mighty IKEA!
https://electrek.co/2018/08/09/indias-f ... rickshaws/
Image
Regards Neil

User avatar
bobins
Donor 2020
Posts: 3798
Joined: 05 Jul 2012, 18:07
x 1125

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by bobins »

I think there's a common misconception regarding the 'greenness' of BEVs. They're not 'clean' and they're not 'green', they're just slightly less dirty than ICE vehicles.
It's not about what type of motive power your vehicle has, it's about the fact that you've got a vehicle in the first place.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 5192
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1447

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

The picture of ikea rickshaws reminds me that there is a significant reality we all seem to have forgotten. When I was growing up in the fifties our city streets were full of electric vehicles, there would be one every time you turned a corner. The fact is they were signwritten with Co-op or Express Dairy or similar but as vehicles they were capable of carrying huge loads for probably 25 miles or so. Perfectly adequate for city dwellers daily transport. All that would be needed is an acceptance of travel at a more sedate pace. If we, as a species, were truly honest about wanting to reduce pollution perhaps we should be prepared to make the simple sacrifice of slowing life down to permit the use of far more environmental friendly transport and thereby benefit from the side effect of reduced stress and tension in the world. Oh no, silly me, we wouldn't be able to make as much MONEY that way, would we? The true root of all evil, and all serious attempts to correct the poisoning we have done to our planet will always be governed by it until we accept that reality and eliminate greed!!!
So got to pop out now, I just spotted a pig flying by!!! #-o
Last edited by mickthemaverick on 08 Nov 2019, 11:26, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13930
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1371

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Did you know that Ipswich has only been mentioned 55 times ever on the French Car forum?

But following Micks post above, its time to dig up from the (fairly recent) Archives both an iconic and ironic image of Ipswich Co-Op's finest hour.
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
31 Jul 2019, 22:26
Now had any of us lived around Ipswich way we may have had our coal delivered ironically by an Electric Morrison 3 ton Coal Truck from the Ipswich Co-op. (1982 Pic)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/8332990814

REgards Neil
Regards Neil

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4850
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 898

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

The boiler engineer tests the emissions but only to be sure the flame is burning clean, a bit like adjusting a carburettor for the best mixture setting.

But will the poster who made the comment please shurrup :-D or they'll be banning gas boilers next and I hate the cold.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 5192
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1447

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 10:31
Did you know that Ipswich has only been mentioned 55 times ever on the French Car forum?


Regards Neil
I hope you're not thinking, Neil, that Ipswich is less worthy than Newcastle just because it has less mentions? After all Newcastle has a slight advantage in that it gets a mention every time you post :!: :-D

Gibbo2286
Donor 2020
Posts: 4850
Joined: 08 Jun 2011, 18:04
x 898

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by Gibbo2286 »

white exec wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 08:02
Don't underestimate the health damage resulting from urban air pollution.
Not just London, but much worse in Delhi, Beijing, Los Angeles. We have to get ICEs off our city streets a.s.a.p.
Are you going to set an example and remove your cars from use?

User avatar
NewcastleFalcon
Posts: 13930
Joined: 25 Feb 2009, 11:40
x 1371

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

mickthemaverick wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 10:40
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 10:31
Did you know that Ipswich has only been mentioned 55 times ever on the French Car forum?
Regards Neil
I hope you're not thinking, Neil, that Ipswich is less worthy than Newcastle just because it has less mentions? After all Newcastle has a slight advantage in that it gets a mention every time you post :!: :-D
Yes us falcons need to spread our wings, we need an Ipswichfalcon to step up to the plate.

I knew I had posted up that Ipswich Co-op electric coal lorry somewhere so just put "Ipswich" into a search to find it hence that vital piece of statistical information :-D . We even had an Ipswich supporter at my old school in deepest Durham.....Bobby Robson's nephew....

REgards Neil

User avatar
white exec
Moderating Team
Posts: 6414
Joined: 21 Dec 2015, 13:46
x 1083

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by white exec »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 10:42
white exec wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 08:02
Don't underestimate the health damage resulting from urban air pollution.
Not just London, but much worse in Delhi, Beijing, Los Angeles. We have to get ICEs off our city streets a.s.a.p.
Are you going to set an example and remove your cars from use?
I know that the days of being able to enjoy our 23-year-old berline are numbered, and that restrictions on urban use are underway.
Living in a sparsely populated mountain/rural area offers some scope for use yet, but not for ever.
Time to move on, and I'll go with it.

User avatar
mickthemaverick
Donor 2019
Posts: 5192
Joined: 11 May 2019, 17:56
x 1447

Re: Dump Your Deezel

Post by mickthemaverick »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
08 Nov 2019, 10:55


We even had an Ipswich supporter at my old school in deepest Durham.....Bobby Robson's nephew....

REgards Neil
I always wondered where the other one lived!! :-D :-D :-D