Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

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Mandrake
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Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Mandrake »

Found this very interesting, what an improvement there has been in NCAP ratings and crash safety in the last 20 years! :shock:

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/car ... CAP-safety

Now granted the Rover 100 apparently had a really poor rating even at the time (1 star) but look at a Xantia, which only scores 1.5 stars: :shock:

http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/citr ... ntia/15460

The 2017 Honda Jazz on the other hand with a 5 star rating maintains complete structural integrity of the passenger compartment when the 1997 Rover and Xantia both basically crumple up like an accordion.

I'm not a fan of modern cars in general (except Tesla's of course :-D ) but there is one thing I will grant that modern cars do have in spades over our cherished classics - crash safety. In fact the Tesla model S achieved the best NCAP rating of any car tested so far I believe, with a full 5 starts on every point.

It will be a sad day when the Xantia has to go but I am looking forward to my next car having a lot better crash safety, especially now that we have a small child.

mickeymoon

Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by mickeymoon »

This is one of the reasons I stopped using Xantias as daily drivers when we had a young child. One of mine crumpled like a baked bean tin when my missus hit a small metal post with it.

Modern cars are often pretty dull, but I can't see how anyone can complain that they've got bulkier and more complex when you look at the stats for KSI.

There will be those of course who say "well you shouldn't crash" or "I don't intend to have an accident", and are happy with their older vehicle. Fair enough, but they need to remember there's millions of other idiots on the road who might hit them.

The solution is..... modern for a daily, classic/older car for a hobby. Even my little 2007 Peugeot 207 has a 5-star for Adult and 4-star for child NCAP rating. One doesn't have to spend a fortune to get safety.



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Stickyfinger
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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Stickyfinger »

I would not use a Xantia as a daily with child. One reason I up-graded to the X7, to many idiots out there and to much traffic.

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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Axa »

C5 from 2004 got 5stars and I find the Citroën brakes quick responsiveness better then on both our newer Espace and Avensis. However when it comes to safety for money with som luxury and space for a larger family, not much can beat our Grand Espace..




But that is a long as you do the repairs by your self or for a very good and fair mechanic..

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CitroJim
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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by CitroJim »

Stickyfinger wrote:I would not use a Xantia as a daily with child. One reason I up-graded to the X7, to many idiots out there and to much traffic.
No, nor me and I don't - my children drive their own cars that have (I hope) far better NCAP ratings than mine...

Wonder what the NCAP rating of my normal daily transport is ;)

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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by CitroJim »

Just checked the kids cars...

C1 is 4 starts and the Pixo is 3 although technically the Pix has never been tested. I took the figure from the Suzuki Alto which it is, it just wears Nissan logos...

The 207 is good. That gets the full five :)

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Stickyfinger
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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Stickyfinger »

Remember that some of the "NEW" test are a bit "Iffy".
The new Mustang got points knocked off for not having buzzers on the rear seat belts.

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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by red_dwarfers »

It does make you think. Trouble is, I could replace the Xantia with a Cactus or C5 and then get driven into while out in the XM which is the car I'm more likely to do long distances in. I guess the point is all about reducing risks. I may invest in a brightly coloured Cactus when they're in the £1-2000 bracket to replace the Xantia but then I might not be able to bring myself to do so!

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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by CitroJim »

red_dwarfers wrote: I may invest in a brightly coloured Cactus when they're in the £1-2000 bracket to replace the Xantia but then I might not be able to bring myself to do so!
That's my plan and dilemma too!

Mind you, when the Cactus is that price I may well be past driving anyway :wink: :lol:

Hope not though [-o<

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Mandrake
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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Mandrake »

Stumbled across the NCAP test videos of the Tesla Model S - it does very well:



The first "small overlap" test is a rather harsh test and not directly comparable to the Rover 100 or Honda Jazz results video (especially since the object struck is completely solid) but towards the end of the video is the "moderate overlap" test which looks very similar to the test at the beginning of this thread.

Considering the car weighs between 2100 and 2400Kg depending on spec (and thus has a lot of inertia) and a large percentage of the body is aluminium alloy not steel it does very well I think! :)

Edit: just realised this is not an NCAP test but the US equivalent, although test conditions look very similar. Here is the Euro NCAP test:

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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by elma »

One of the perks of getting the Scenic for me is that it's a 5 star NCAP car and hence I felt safer driving it. On the downside it doesn't like the muddy, narrow, twisty roads where I live and is far more likely to be crashed. I can't afford 2 cars though so the Scenics going in 2 weeks and I'll drive safely in my less safe car.

mickeymoon

Re: RE: Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by mickeymoon »

elma wrote: I'll drive safely in my less safe car.
As ever, the issue is often the other drivers on the road who may crash into you, not your own mistakes.

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Re: RE: Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by CitroJim »

mickeymoon wrote:
elma wrote: I'll drive safely in my less safe car.
As ever, the issue is often the other drivers on the road who may crash into you, not your own mistakes.
Yes, sadly true. You can derive as safely and as defensively as possible but you can't make every other road user do the same :(

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Mandrake
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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Mandrake »

And for completeness here is a modern Citroen! ;)

As already mentioned the C5 X7 (2009) gets pretty high NCAP ratings and indeed the following video does compare quite favourably with the newer Tesla in most of the tests, considering that it is a 4 year older design:



The main difference is the side pole intrusion test where the Tesla comes out way in front for passenger compartment integrity - probably because the underfloor battery pack in the Tesla is a massively strong compartmentalised grid like structure designed to protect the batteries from damage, and also forms a major structural component of the car, especially for sideways impacts, that most cars don't have.

Of all the Citroen's newer than the Xantia I've previously said the C5 X7 is the only one that interests me in any way, with such a good NCAP rating maybe it will be my next car in a few years...

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Re: Car safety and NCAP ratings improvements!

Post by Mandrake »

And here is a contemporary Volvo S90/V90 - should have a really good NCAP result right ? Well maybe... not in the side pole intrusion test, which is actually way worse than the C5 X7!



It seems that side pole intrusion is really hard to get right, and that the battery pack structure in the floor in the Tesla reinforces the body against side impacts like nothing else...putting all that extra structure in the floor in an ICE car would just be dead weight that couldn't be justified, but in a battery powered car that requires that structure to protect the battery better side impact results is a very nice "free" benefit!

Edit: it occurs to me that weight distribution would be a significant part of the improved pole side impact result of the Tesla - on the Volvo, like most ICE cars, even if the centre of gravity is near perfect near the middle, the mass distribution is towards the ends of the car, especially the engine end. This would mean that in a side impact with a pole at the drivers door the mass of the engine at the end of the car would try to bend the car around the pole - which is exactly what happens in the video.

With the Tesla the mass is mostly concentrated near the middle of the car with the battery pack (which weighs over 500Kg of the total ~2200Kg) and there is no heavy engine at the front as in an ICE. The rear motor is very light and even in the AWD model the front motor is behind the front wheels and is even lighter. So in the side pole impact there is not much bending moment being applied on the chassis due to the lack of heavy concentrations of mass towards the ends of the car. Most of the mass of the car hits square onto the pole.