ML5T Gearbox swap.

[xsaras4ever]

Hello to all from Bretagne.

We have long standing problems with the gearbox on our 1.9td Boxer van .

Its a ML5T gearbox and 2nd gear is almost gone possibly due to worn baulk-ring causing the synchro to crash.

Normally these gearboxes fetch 400euros plus here in France but today a 1.9d Boxer has come onto our radar at a very attractive price.

When we put its VIN into Service box it shows the ML5T gearbox too.

Both Vans are XUD9.

Our question is : will it fit (specifically the length and thickness of the gearbox shaft to slot into the crank) as if memory serves us correctly, the gearbox from a 1.9td car is not the same as a 1.9d car ?

[CitroJim]

Our question is : will it fit (specifically the length and thickness of the gearbox shaft to slot into the crank) as if memory serves us correctly, the gearbox from a 1.9td car is not the same as a 1.9d car ?

If the clutches are the same then they will, almost certainly. If not, you can use the good one as a parts donor for the bad one.. The ML5 is a relatively easy 'box to strip and overhaul.

The difference in the D and TD in the XUD-engined cars with the BE3 gearbox is they use different clutches, the TD being a 'pull' type and the D a 'push' type...

I don't believe this changes the dimensions of the input shaft though but I may be wrong...

[xsaras4ever]

Thanks Jim , we will look at the clutches on Servicebox.

[xsaras4ever]

Hello Jim , checked the clutches on ServiceBox and they are the same. The gear ratios and differential are different though more than likely because the van is a 1.9d and only 68bhp as opposed to the 92bhp of our van.

Anyway, we went ahead and bought it and as is usual in these matters it is in as good if not better condition than our van so now the dilema is whether to break it or save it.

We have had this dilema many times in the past, as we are sure most of the addicts here have had too.

It actually seems easier to repair it and sell it rather than to break it............then put the profit back into our own van.

[CitroJim]

Anyway, we went ahead and bought it and as is usual in these matters it is in as good if not better condition than our van so now the dilema is whether to break it or save it.

Always a dilemma! Save it I say... And then keep it for yourself Chances are the work needed is a lot less (and cheaper) than swapping gearboxes and the concomitant work needed such as anew clutch, oil and seals.

The gear ratios between the D and TD will be very different and you may find the D ratios don't suit the TD at all well...

Let us know how it all goes. Some pictures would be good too

[xsaras4ever]

Thanks Jim. Spotted a zx for 100euros today - a great donor.

Don't know if you remember, but we boxerized a xantia engine for our van - changed sump, oil pickup, flywheel etc and then had the protracted puzzle of why we had no vacuum at the servo (we had to drill the brass blanking plug). So boxerizing a zx engine is ground we have covered before.

[Paul-R]

Boxerising? Please explain.

[xsaras4ever]

In the cars, the engines sit at a backwards tilt, whereas in the vans they are more or less upright.

If you put a car engine into a van, it will very quickly get ruined as it will suffer from oil-starvation, because the sumps are different, as is the oil pickup pipe in the sump.

Also , in the vans the flywheel is a much bigger affair, as is the pressure plate and clutch disc..

So Boxerizing, or Relaying or whatever - basically adapting a PSA car engine to go into a PSA van.

[Paul-R]

Ah, I see. It's referencing the van name.

Whenever I see "boxer" and "engine" I immediately think of horizontally opposed pistons as in the original Beetle and 70s/80s Mitsubishi 4wd.

[xsaras4ever]

Hi Paul , crazy as we certainly are..............we haven't yet cut up 2 PSA engines and welded them back together in a flat format...............

[Old-Guy]

Hi Paul , crazy as we certainly are..............we haven't yet cut up 2 PSA engines and welded them back together in a flat format...............

Wouldn't that be 'Subaruing'? (Water-cooled as opposed to air-cooled).

[Paul-R]

Subaru - that's what I meant.

Hi Paul , crazy as we certainly are..............we haven't yet cut up 2 PSA engines and welded them back together in a flat format...............

Now there's a project to savour.

[Hell Razor5543]

Nah, what Team WFA should try is to get hold of 3 V6 engines, and then try and make a Deltic engine configuration!

[myglaren]

Hi Paul , crazy as we certainly are..............we haven't yet cut up 2 PSA engines and welded them back together in a flat format...............

Wouldn't that be 'Subaruing'? (Water-cooled as opposed to air-cooled).

Or "Lancia-ing"

[Old-Guy]

On a more serious note; doing some research on PSA diesels, I noticed that the 21C van engines have lower power outputs with fixed geometry turbos, presumably in the interests of better reliability when thrashed on a daily basis. But then anyone going to the trouble of Boxerising a car diesel probably isn't going to drive flat-to-the-floor.