C5 Mk1 '03. Suspension pump not running.

[samjmann]

Hi all

I had a leak on the return side pipe in the NSF wheel arch. The small pipe that's visible near the strut was broken. This was repaired last November. At the same time the suspension pump had started to make a slight squeal when starting. After the pipe was replaced the noise stopped. All was OK until 10 days back when the pump noise returned. At this point I checked the LDS tank and found it was dry. It took 1.75 litres of LDS to top up.. Since topping up the pump gradually ran quieter, but somehow never sounded like it did a year or so back.

Today the pump will operate at all. There have been no suspension warnings on the dash. I have lost pressure (I think) to the front spheres twice in the last 10 days. At the moment, when the suspension up/down switch is pressed, the central display shows the 'request' to raise/lower, but I can't hear the pump run. The LDS level has not dropped, so don't think there's a leak. My thoughts are that I've ran the pump with hardly any LDS in the system, and maybe this has damaged a bearing in the pump - hence the squeal noise. Is the Pump supply fuse in the Engine bay fuse box. My Haynes manual shows a 30A fuse for an 'Air pump' do they mean the hydraulic pump? I know the pump draws a lot of current, operating the pump makes the headlights dim for a split second when it cuts in.

As a bit of background info, the cars covered 79000 miles, I've not had a history of warnings on the dash, I've had two leaks on the high pressure side of the suspension, but that was over 5 years ago. I've owned the car for 10 years now. I don't know if this is related but today it displayed BRAKE FAULT on the display, this only lasted for a few minuets. After stopping the car the going back two hours later the message had cleared!

I'm taking the car to a Citroen specialist on Monday, he's got the Lexia software, so I'll see what happens. I'm sure none of this will be cheap....

Regards, SJM

[wheeler]

The air pump is for petrol engines & is unrelated to the suspension. The maxi fuse for the suspension pump is underneath the main engine compartment fusebox. You actually need to unclip the fuse box & lift it up, under here you will find a row of maxi fuses, cant remember which one it (50 amp from memory?) is but there are only a few. If the fuse is blown its normally a sign that the pump is seized or starting to seize.

[samjmann]

Thanks for the reply wheeler,

I'll check this in the morning. My thoughts are that it's the pump rather than the control system. There's no messages on the dash. I can't help feel that low fluid might damage the pump. Can the pump be split from the ECU? Otherwise it's a reprograme by the Lexia I suppose! Cheers, SJM.

[myglaren]

There are a few threads here covering C5 suspension pump faults and fixes and yes, you can split the pump and ECU.

[samjmann]

Hi all, Got the car back today, had a new pump/motor/ECU assy fitted from a '02 HDI (my car's a '53). All went well, no loss of pressure etc, new pump very quiet. Now the bad bits, the car seems to be riding higher than before, the wheel arches seem high compared to the wheels... There's a terrible squeal from the steering pump or the idler pulley underneath. This gets worse with engine speed. This fault wasn't there before the pump change. And I keep getting 'Brake Fault' and the red handbrake symbol appearing on the dash! The ride quality is great again. But is the brake problem nothing more than a worn pad/sensor? The actual brakes are as good as ever, no loss of power at all. All this on a 14yr old car, not good... (The car's covered 79K).

Just a thought, I'm sure that the ECU is from the donor car, as they said they did not have to match the replacement ECU to the control system. I wonder if you need to set it with the Lexia, maybe this would put matters right. I not blaming the garage, they have looked at the car now for years without fail, this was a 'fit part' on customers request job.

This 'aint lookin' good. SJM.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well I can tell you for a normal Hydractive 3 and not a Hydractive 3+ there are 6 part numbers listed for the BHI for a start! 5277 41 to 5277 46 inclusive. These will differ based on whether there is variable power steering / normal, Headlamp adjustment or not etc.

Secondly, I'm guessing that they didn't program the suspension heights in either. This is part of the procedure when changing the BHI - under 'Learning'. There is a separate procedure for doing this, but basically, you'll need to follow the formula to calculate the values and compare these to the reference values that Lexia will read from the suspension ECU (which of course will now be different from your original car - so is probably causing some issues. Once the new values are programmed in that should resolve the height issue.

As the braking circuit is different to the suspension circuit, I can't see how this would cause the braking problem. If you want the procedure for height measurement calculation let me know, along with your VIN.

[GiveMeABreak]

I've just checked that since RPO 9618 (10th march 2003), after replacing the BHI - you need to programme the ID of the steering wheel angle sensor (if you have ESP), Adjust the vehicle Height (as I mentioned in my last post using the procedure) and finally, "Configure the functions that serve the Suspension". - Now I can't tell you want that last bit entails, but I suspect it would relate to ensuring the BSI is aware of the new BHI, or certainly running through the suspension parameters and checking that everything is ok.

[wheeler]

From memory the BHI configuration is quite basic. You need to tell it whether it is 3 or 3+, whether it has xenon headlamps or not & whether it has variable power steering or not. The variable steering is only fitted to the V6 models if i remember right.

[samjmann]

Thank you so much for the most detailed replies. I didn't expect anyone to go to such trouble.

I got charged for the fitting only (2Hrs) for the pump/motor/bhi assy + LDS. I'd supplied the used part. The garage said that whilst they could set everything up to spec, the other problems on the car are building up. The car's only covered 79K and I'm saddened to part with it after 10 years service. The other items are: Intercooler cracked at bottom, weeping oil mist; Handbrake cable nearly seized, this was replaced 6 years ago; squeal coming from either steering pump/idler pulley/alternator - this has only started since the pump change; tailgate struts getting soft; brake warning light coming on intermittently- this may be nothing more than a worn brake pad; possible poor ground to rear brake lights - odd lighting problems.

I can do the lighting/brake pads/struts, but I reckon that I'd need to spend another £250.00+ on garage charges for the Lexia time and the intercooler change + whatever is causing the squealing noise. My eldest son who works for Bristol Street cheered me up by saying 'oh by the way Dad, these go through the auctions for £50-100...' So very very sadly I'm letting the car go as it is. The body work is undamaged all original panels, I've never had a accident in it, the car still looks good, but the bills are now adding up and I'm struggling to keep pace with them. I've spent a total of £3k in servicing/parts/tyres on the car on the 10 years I've owned it. £300 a year in total probably a lot less than some newer cars maybe!

So thanks once again to all that have read/replied, I'm afraid I'm going to sell and get something a little newer and less complex than the C5. This forum has been a source of such good advice over the last 10years. Thanks. SJM

PS .My wife say's I'll stick with the new car for 6 months, then get another Citroen!

[GiveMeABreak]

Thank you so much for the most detailed replies. I didn't expect anyone to go to such trouble.
So thanks once again to all that have read/replied, I'm afraid I'm going to sell and get something a little newer and less complex than the C5. This forum has been a source of such good advice over the last 10years. Thanks. SJM

PS .My wife say's I'll stick with the new car for 6 months, then get another Citroen!

Sorry to see you go, but better to say see you in a bit - as many end up missing their Citroen and come back!

To be honest, you'll find most newer cars are the same these days - more electronics and less mechanics, and as for the suspension - very reliable as a rule, with little maintenance required. Good luck anyway with whatever you decide to buy.

[xantia_v6]

It seems a pity to let go of a fundamentally sound car. It sounds like a bit of money spent now would keep it going for several years.

If you really do have to part with it, offer it here, someone might be looking for a good project.

[wurlycorner]

That's a shame to hear you're thinking of parting, but obviously whatever feels right to you.

Sounds like correctly setting up the suspension pump ECU settings would clear all the suspension problems in one go.

Some of those repairs are fiddly, but most aren't expensive. The intercooler part for example, is easy to change and the part is available (new) for £100 or less.

[samjmann]

Hi, letting the 'old girl' go was quite hard. I've only got limited facilities to work on the car, and yes, the intercooler was on the list for this summer along with the struts for the tailgate. I think the wiring harness for the tailgate was starting to fail, I'd already had one core of cable fail for the numberplate lights, the brakelights were now becoming intermittent.

I've changed the car for a .....Toyota Avensis. I don't think I could have chosen two cars more diametrically different. Years ago I had an Alfasud which I loved, rust all over it, then sold it for a Cortina! So maybe it's second time round thinking. No Haynes manual for the Toyota, a very different forum, what have I done!!! Aaargh.. Yes continental cars do have soul, the Toyota, well built but somehow...?

Best regards, SJM.

[wurlycorner]

the Toyota, well built but somehow...?

Bland and utterly boring!