Buying a C4

[xsaras4ever]

Hello to all again.

We have gradually progressed through the Citroen/Peugeot models and have been in our Xsara and 306 stage now for quite a while (while still thinking very kindly on the unbreakable ZX)

Always Diesel.

We are beginning to feel that its time to move on and the C4, 207 and 307 are in out sights (in that order too, not very keen on the 307 shape). We are not Picasso lovers in any form.

Are there many C4 owners on this forum - do you find them complicated to repair - well designed etc ?

Thanks in Advance as always.

[Paul-R]

Not a direct answer but we found ourselves in a similar position with our 2001 Xsara Estate (always diesel!). We would have gone for a C4 Estate but PSA in their infinite wisdom saw not to make such a model. Same as you a Picasso did not appeal as we need load space not people space. Which left the Xsara/C4 sibling - the Peugeot 30x.

The 306 and 307 would be too old really and I just didn't like the "flattened frog" corporate look of the Peugeots up until a couple of years ago. Fortunately the new 308 looks much better than the earlier one although it is a bit bland. I had thought them way out of our price range until damaged repaired one came up at the right price.

I had really wanted an Allure level but this was an Active. So, what's missing that I would have liked? The LED headlamps would have been good as would front parking sensors. Parking door mirrors and privacy glass in the back would have been nice as well. Apart from that it had everything we wanted: satnav, cruise control (a now vital item for our regular trips to France), Euro 6 engine which is (currently) £0 to tax.

Niggles? Only one 12v socket for all your accessories, touch screen has too many functions built in to it, non-optional electronic parking brake, daylight sensor that switches the lights on at far too early a stage ("not adjustable" says the dealer), auto windscreen wipers that are just plain stupid for when they sweep and when to stop (but then they all are in my experience), space save tyre instead of full size (but luckily not a puncture repair kit I suppose), Radio 4 FM reception that is always fluttery, a disappointingly small 53l fuel tank (presumably reduced to make space for the 17l AdBlue tank) and fuel consumption not as good as I hoped it would be looking at the official figures.

Oh, and one more thing - appalling ground clearance front and rear. I fitted an auxiliary spring kit to the rear of the Xsara and I shall be doing the same to the 308 when the weather gets a bit better. Hopefully that will take away some of the problem at the front as well otherwise I'll have to look at what can be done there as well.

Pleasant surprises? How well the rear seats fold down, the large area for luggage and not a lot else. Most things are just competently, albeit not inspiringly, done.

[Old-Guy]

Having just bought a Grand C4 Picasso to replace our venerable Xantia Estate, I thought I'd offer my thoughts.
Our reasons for choosing the Picasso rather than anything else (like a C5 Estate or a rival MPV) were:

• Easier access in tight parking spaces (twisting up and out of the Xantia is not good for bad backs and creaking joints)
  Relatively comfortable ride - though nothing modern approaches the Xantia,
  Diesel for economy,
  With 3 growing grand-children (siblings), 5 proper seats are absolutely essential (a lot of '5-seat' MPVs are 4½-seat); 'Grand' means two extra seats (so all 3 generations, or the olds + 5 kids, will fit in one car) and a better shaped load space,
  We still need to be able to move furniture, and carry two folding bikes plus week-away luggage for two hidden under the cover, so more load space in 5-seat mode than the Xantia,
  Value for money - a 5-6 year-old GC4P with 50-60k for about £7k; any of the potential rivals would have been £1-2k more or 1-2 years older and/or 70-100k miles.

We're pleased with our GC4P; but, despite all the gizmos it's definitely built down to a weight, and the search for Euro 5 emissions compliance has led to some bad compromises:

• No spare wheel! One motorway puncture is potentially more expensive than the cost of retro-fitting a spare - but when the engineers have to find weight savings, the spare is an obvious candidate;
  Without a spare wheel, you don't need a jack or wheel brace - another 1½Kg saved! (and another £40 at spares prices);
  Flimsy body panels and badly designed/made plastic trim components (that break with ease);
  Fragile design of tailgate handle that could so easily have been beefed up - but hasn't been because it's a money-spinner: £75 for two plastic mouldings (handle) and 2 micro-switches (the handle is factory-fitted with the wrong one, the one that actually fits is £25 - service.citroen even points this out!)

Good points:-

• It meets our spec (as above) in every respect;
  Despite its size, less thirsty than the Xantia (mid- rather than low-40s, but a bit early to really tell);
  Access in a tight parking space, really is much easier than the Xantia;
  High seating position with a HUGE windscreen (clever sun shades), big side windows for all passengers and sun-blinds on the rear passenger door windows;
  112hp with max torque at 1750rpm married to a 6-speed box with well-chosen ratios;
  Cruise control and speed limiter;
  The Reversing Aid works really well - it isn't triggered by the cars either side as you reverse into a space, but does let you know if you're about to hit anything - even bollards and railings... mostly!
  Good-size mirrors (Transit is my mirror benchmark);
  Good lights all round, including the reversing lights;
  Manual A/C with separate temperature control for front passenger, air vents for rear passengers - fast defrost and demist (if you wipe the wet ice off the outside);
  Cavernous load space that's much taller (including under the cover) than the Xantia, if not quite as long (I haven't done comparative measurements),
  Three full-size, individually-adjustable, seats in row 2, with huge leg-room if row3 isn't in use;
  Quite the best folding arrangement for access to row 3 or the middle seat of row 2;
  Capable and comfortable motorway cruiser - I get driver's numb-bum in most cars and LCVs, but not in the Picasso.

How much better it could have been with better attention to detail design, and as an MPV, it's crying out for simple hydro-pneumatic suspension like the Xantia (it's already got an electric hydraulic pump for the power steering). Maybe the latest incarnation (on a lighter base) is better, but without 'real' Citroen suspension it will never have a really good ride.

[xsaras4ever]

Hello again and thank you for the Replies.

Unfortunately the 308 is out of our price range - in fact its proving impossible to find a a broken C4 at the right price too.

The best so far is one with a 1.6hdi with a broken turbo - the 2nd turbo he says in 5000km. The seller claims that it broke because he didn't remove the sump and replace/clean the mesh on the oil pick-up.

He wants 1500euros for it and it has 318000km - too high for us .

We are learning that the 1.6hdi is fragile - especially in the turbo area - any comments.

[RichardW]

We are learning that the 1.6hdi is fragile - especially in the turbo area - any comments.

Ha ha..... the problems with the 1.6 16V HDi engine are legendary and well documented! Turbo failure is de-riguer. Having said that, the engine is basically sound, just let down by a few daft problems. Turbo failure can be avoided by taking a few simple steps; and even if it has got to that stage (end even if the first replacement has failed) it's possible to rectify the situation. Mostly!

First, and most important, is to remove the tiny strainer from inside the lower banjo bolt on the turbo oil feed - this alone will save the turbo from self destruction. Not that easy, as you need to remove the CAT / DPF to get at it, and this means taking the rad out (on 110 versions anyway). After that, you need to repair any leaking injector seals - again not all that easy, as they don't always like coming out of the head. Then you need to monitor the engine at start up - if the sump strainer starts to block (you will hear it rattle for a second or two at cold start), then you need to drop the sump and rip the strainer out.

[Peter.N.]

If you don't mind an older car I would suggest a 406 estate, plenty of room good ride and handling, relatively easy access for servicing, they rarely go wrong and the 2.0. Hdi will give 60 mpg driven gently and they last forever (well almost).

Peter

[elma]

After that, you need to repair any leaking injector seals - again not all that easy, as they don't always like coming out of the head. .

Understatement of the year.

[Fake Concern]

I have a C4, it's the Mk1 Coupe and a petrol VTS model with full leather and a pan roof. These seem to be far more reliable than dirty diesel. It now has 188000 miles on it.
My daughter has a Pug 207 which is really nice to drive, comfortable and spacious with a pan roof, but looks pretty horrible (in my opinion!) also petrol and averages over 40mpg.
I also have an XM V6, but that's another story.

[Old-Guy]

...We are learning that the 1.6hdi is fragile - especially in the turbo area - any comments.

It may not be relevant for the OP, but the later (Oct 2010-on) 8V 1.6HDi (DV6 C) is supposed to be far less prone to the problems (turbo and injectors) that made its 16V predecessor (DV6 TED4) notorious. Having recently bought a 2011 Grand C4 Picasso 1.6HDi, I really hope so. In any event, as a precaution, its oil will be changed every year using the correct procedure and the specified oil.
From what I gleaned from the web, the problem with the 16V turbo is that its oil feed pipe is too small, too long, and with a mesh filter at the turbo end so the oil flow is a bit marginal even when new; over time, the pipe and especially its filter become obstructed by coke, aggravated by the common problem of drivers turning off the engine when the turbo is red hot (instead of letting the engine idle 20 seconds or so).
The proper 'fix' is to replace not just the turbo, but also the pipe and the oil pump both of which are of modified design and greater capacity. A quick and dirty fix (just replace the turbo-charger and 'clean-out' the pipe) is a recipe for another failure within 30,000 miles.
Regularly diving into a motorway service area for a quick refuel is an even more expensive habit than you might think; not only will you pay a hefty premium on fuel and anything else you buy, but stopping suddenly from high speed means that 'heat-soak' will warp the front discs (the patch insulated by the pads stays hot while the rest of the disc rapidly cools and contracts) and carbonise the oil in the very hot turbo-charger!

[Neshar]

Hello everyone. I am in a process of buying a used car. That is an advanture in Serbia where i`m from. A lot of imported cars and a lot of shady dudes selling them. My first wish was new Renault Megane but unfortunatelly it`s out of my price range. Best one for my level is C4. After a long browsing i found two C4`s that caught my attention. One is 2009, originaly from France, other one is 2010 from Belgium. Both are 1.6 HDI. First one has a little more equipment and it would be my first choice but i have had a look on web and on the site that checks VIN, found out that it has a report of a damage and a loss back in 2012. How can i check that, does anyone know?
Can you tell me more about those models and engines, are they a good buy? Also, i`ve found one 1.4 petrol engine C4, but i`ve heard that they are lazy and cannot cope well on the uphills and during acceleration? Are they good or should it be avoided? All the help is appriciated. Thanks.