C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

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gentiii
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C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by gentiii »

Hi i have Citroen C5 mk1 i like to make little lower in front. Can you help me how to di that with delphi software please?
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hi and welcome to the Forum :)

What are you actually asking? Are you saying the suspension is too high at the front in your opinion or are you asking to customise it?

Can you describe the problem?

If you are asking whether you can alter the suspension to ride lower because you prefer it lower, the answer is no. The suspension system is highly complex and is electronically controlled to work within certain parameters and 'laws' that cannot be customised to suit the individual. Many other electrical systems are interlinked, sending and receiving information between the various ECUs to determine actions. The car is designed to operate at an optimal ride height.

If you are concerned that the suspension is not correct, then you will need to get it on a Lexia where the suspension values can be read and compared with the reference heights to determine if it is at the correct height or not. Incorrect height can be caused by the height correctors sticking and needing some lubrication, but anything else will generally need to be diagnosed with a Lexia.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by Stickyfinger »

Does it not also damage the strut/piston ?

Parts are available from Citroen for lowering a C5x7 btw.....x7 Carlsson
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Stickyfinger wrote:Does it not also damage the strut/piston ?
Parts are available from Citroen for lowering a C5x7 btw.....x7 Carlsson
But aren't those for the metallic versions? I know that with the revised skirts and front grille it can look lower - but I haven't seen anything to do with lowering the Hydractive Carlsson as yet. But there would be no point either in lowering a Hydractive system as it would ride horribly - it's not designed to be lower else it would bump all over the place...
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by gentiii »

i think the front is little bit high so i like to costumise to make lower
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

There is a formula to check the ride height of the vehicle. So long as it is within the right range the suspension will work properly. My C5 estate was riding too high at the back (about 20mm) and it was very twitchy. Marc (GiveMeABreak) sent me the routine for checking and setting up the suspension, and now it is pretty much bang on, and a lot more comfortable.

Please note that correcting the ride height is something you can only do either using a good maintenance pit or a lift that supports the car on its wheels. Anything else won't work, and could be dangerous. People have been killed by hydro pneumatic Citroens when working on the suspension, when the car has dropped down and killed them. You will also (for the fine tuning stage) need a Lexia, but you can only do the fine tuning when you are within 10mm of the correct ride height.

If you lower the suspension (drop it out of its' correct working range) you will risk it bottoming out and causing damage to the car. I recall a few years ago somebody who modified a BX, lowering it a LONG way. One of the things he did was potentially dangerous (to him and other road users). However, at its' (now) normal ride height the sump was showing signs of scrape damage (road humps, etc.). It LOOKED good 'slammed', but was not a safe proposition.

Something else to remember is that (assuming everything is working properly) the C5 will adjust its ride height to suit the road conditions. At motorway speeds (110KMH) the suspension will lower by 15mm, while at lower speeds (less than 70KMH) on rough roads the suspension will lift by 13mm. This is based on the reference height, and if this is wrong everything will be thrown out of kilter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydropneumatic_suspension
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 04 Jan 2017, 11:48, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by Stickyfinger »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
Stickyfinger wrote:Does it not also damage the strut/piston ?
Parts are available from Citroen for lowering a C5x7 btw.....x7 Carlsson
But aren't those for the metallic versions? I know that with the revised skirts and front grille it can look lower - but I haven't seen anything to do with lowering the Hydractive Carlsson as yet. But there would be no point either in lowering a Hydractive system as it would ride horribly - it's not designed to be lower else it would bump all over the place...
Nope, the parts are available (and a software update) from Citroen. I (think I recall correctly) it is 1.5cm lower.

There are a few parts that need changing BEFORE you can lower the X7 or the height correctors get damaged......DO NOT lower a standard one.
Last edited by Stickyfinger on 04 Jan 2017, 11:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

gentiii wrote:i think the front is little bit high so i like to costumise to make lower
Then the answer is no. It is not designed to be lowered or raised any more than the parameters already set.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by 411514 »

i think the front is little bit high so i like to costumise to make lower
I had the same problem with my Mk1 C5. The front suspension ride height had raised from the factory height. Whether this was due to an electrical or mechanical change I am unsure. The increased height however had messed with the suspension geometry and was causing scrubbing and excessive wear on the inner edges of the front tyres.

My understanding is that the instructed ride height can be altered manually using a Lexia, i.e. by altering the settings of the suspension control unit. I do not have access to a Lexia however, and so I altered the height merely by adjusting the mechanical linkage between the anti-roll bar and the electronic height sensor.

As you may be aware, the suspension control unit measures the ride height by way of an electronic position sensor coupled to the anti-roll bar by a link bar and a clamp. The idea is that a change in the ride height causes the ARB to rotate. By loosening the clamp, and rotating the clamp relative to the ARB, you can in effect 'trick' the suspension control unit into thinking the car is higher/lower than it actually is.

The amount of rotation of the clamp relative to the ARB required is likely to very small, in my case no more than five degrees or so to achieve the required ride height reduction.

Ideally you should do the adjusting with the weight on the wheels, i.e. by using ramps, and you can then make incremental changes at a time and observe the change in height until it looks right.

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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by elma »

It is very important that you measure the front ride height before deciding to make any adjustments.

Citroen suspension is designed to work at a certain height and going lower will cause the suspension to become soft and unsafe.

These adjustments should only be carried out by someone competent and experienced with hydropneumatic cars. Playing with the ride height is one of the more dangerous jobs you can do and can easily cause death by crushing should you not be well versed in the cars.

What is the actual ride height of the front of your car? Before you do anything you need to know this otherwise you may be taking the car from a good ride height to an unsafe one.

Ride height on a Citroen has little to do with what looks right compared to other cars. It would be quite unwise to adjust it based on looks.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

You MUST do it with the engine running (so as to prevent the car going into economy mode), and with a massive amount of safe space underneath (so that, should you over adjust, you do not get crushed by the car). Once it is within 10mm of the correct height you can use the Lexia (assuming you have access to one) to fine tune the height. After each adjustment you should 'bounce' the car so that you can see if it returns to the same point, and then measure it.

I am NOT joking about the safe space thing. A few years back I was up at CitroJims' adjusting the height on my Xantia (and helping/hindering him (delete the appropriate one) to do the same on an XM (that is harder to do, as the height adjuster is hidden). She was up on ramps (that was fun!). I over adjusted on my Xantia (not much, but a few degrees), and when she stopped moving the sump was gently touching my chest. It made me very nervous. If I had rolled onto my side to try and get out while she was dropping I would have suffered serious injuries.

To check the front height of a C5 you will need a tape measure (obviously). Measure from the centre of the wheel down to the ground. Then measure from the subframe (where the suspension arm front fixing yokes are) down to the ground. The correct difference between the two is 140mm (so, if you have a wheel height of 300mm you want a subframe height of 160mm).

If you are only changing the height for cosmetic appeal, DON'T! At the minimum you risk damaging the car (suspension bottoming out, engine/gearbox damage from hitting obstructions (road humps, etc.), and so on), you may well find the insurance goes up or is invalidated, and, at worst, a possible accident. Remember, the C5 will, at speeds over 110KMH, lower the suspension a further 15mm, and while that is safe in a C5 riding correctly, on one that has been lowered even slightly the road holding could be affected adversely. I would suggest that you consider decent body styling kits as a safer option.

Please do not assume we don't want you to modify you car. Done safely Citroens can look beautiful when modded (look for CGAT CX). However, we do not want you (or others) to get hurt if something goes wrong.

http://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesim ... .jpg1..jpg
http://www.petersgarage.se/CITROEN/BILDER/DSC00787.JPG
http://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/mesim ... 840/33.jpg
Last edited by Hell Razor5543 on 05 Jan 2017, 12:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I quite agree James. As the OP has indicated it is not a problem but a desire to lower it, I would also advise against it from a safety aspect if nothing else, so I stand by my earlier post.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by elma »

It's very true, put the car on low and look at the space. Thats how much room you've got if you over adjust or if an air bubble in the LDS decides to make the car drop with you underneath. This really must be done with the correct ramps by someone who knows exactly what they are doing, these cars weigh about 1.5 tonnes.

Thankfully you may not need to adjust it, measuring the ride height is a far safer process.
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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by 411514 »

I guess the summary of the above is (a) ensure that (if following my above adjustment method) the car is supported at a height such that at the minimum extent of suspension travel a person beneath will not be squashed (I have found standard height ramps sufficient for a person of my size); and (b) don't adjust the height if it doesn't need adjusting (or conversely only adjust the height if its needs adjusting) - I suspect that you will have considered this already before posting.

I would suggest that the various methods of measuring the current ride height are dependent on you having access to a perfectly flat area of ground. I reckon that my ride height was little more than 15mm higher than it should be. This excess was sufficient to scrub the inner edges of the tyres. I however don't have access to an area of ground matching that of the car that I know to be flat to that tolerance. In my experience a visual observation of the ride height, and particularly the distance between the outer perimeter of the front tyre relative to the wheel arch as compared to that of the rear tyre compared to the arch, was sufficiently accurate as to allow correct adjustment of the ride height.

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Re: C5 2003 Make more lower with dephi sowftware need help

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Something you might want to do is to ask around your local garages to see if any have a suitable lift (or pit) that you can use. I was able to do mine in 15 minutes on a lift, and it only cost me £10.
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