A Bit About Diesel Particulate filters For You

[falling-out-with-my-car]

In my recent six or so week search for a newer car I did a lot of online research
about DPF or Diesel Particulate Filters in More Modern cars.

I suppose that this should be posted to all areas of the forum so that all sections can read it
and make an informed decision of their own as to whether or not they want to venture into the world
of diesel particulate filters or not.

I found this very interesting piece about "Cars Without a DPF" and thought the forum would like to read it.

what ever you choose to do stay with older classic cars or move on to new technologies Good Luck.

I settled for a Euro 4 compliant 2.0 litre HDI with FAP the French terminology for the Diesel Particulate Filter But only
with a lot of reassurance from my local independent Garage (Pleiades) that Citroen FAP systems are nothing to be afraid of on 2.0l HDi engines.
once I realised the potential costs of owning and running one if anything went wrong I felt a lot better about it.
so talk to your mechanic/specialist if you have one, if you have any doubts.

apparently the 1.6 Hdi's can be a little problematic so I avoided those. your opinions/experiences however may be significantly different.
for me it was all about ride quality which is why I settled for another Citroen.

Here's the link: http://www.dpfproblems.net/cars-without-a-dpf/

Regards Nigel.

[GiveMeABreak]

PSA are well-ahead of the rest Nigel in DPF technology, having patented their system way back in the early 2000s. This is one of the things that annoys me on the news (the BBC in particular) as they rope all Diesels together, making no distinction between the Manufacturers and their technologies employed to reduce particulates. The PSA system is sound and if looked after and the diesels are given good runs, they will give little trouble.

[falling-out-with-my-car]

Marc,

its a Citroen trouble is its middle Name.

[GiveMeABreak]

Marc,
its a Citroen trouble is its middle Name.

But give me citroen over a VW any day! I positively hate the things - always have since we had a VW camper when I was a wee lad and it was always breaking down and noisy as hell - and possibly the fact that I always had to sleep in the roof tent may have had something to do with my loathing of them! Freezing nights in the Austrian alps in one of those things....

[myglaren]

None of my Citroens have been any more troublesome that any of my other marques, other than the Honda Accord which only ever needed a back box, radiator and a light bulb. Tyres and oil of course.

[uncle buck]

Never mind how good they are, you would still chose not to have a DPF if you could though wouldn't you.

If you had the choice between two identical cars with the same service history, mileage owners etc, one had a DPF and one didn't you would take the one without!



Cheers.

[GiveMeABreak]

But that's like saying here's 2 identical cars, - you can have one for free or pay £30k for the other, which do you choose?

Back in the real world, forgetting electric and hybrids for the moment, with a choice of Petrol or Diesel, I want the mpg so choose Diesel. Diesel = DPF, and now its DPF and Adblue too. If I was buying new today I may consider going back to petrol. Sooner or later we'll probably all be driving electric anyway.

[uncle buck]

But both the cars in my example were the same price

You're correct, unfortunately if you wish to have a diesel car you either have to get one that was made without a DPF or put up with having one.



Cheers.

[ekjdm14]

While we're fortunate to have a total DPF count of 0 in our household, I kind of think a filter would be a good excuse to take the car for a nice long drive now & again.

[Paul-R]

From two cars without a DPF we now have one Euro 5 car with a DPF and a Euro 6 car with DPF and AdBlue. Prior to buying either of them I didn't think that I would think very much of the extra technology but now we have them I find that I have this feeling of, not superiority, but something along the lines of doing my bit.

At least until something goes wrong. Then I'll let you know how I feel.

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, there is also the question of conscience. Knowing what we do now about particulate matter specifically and how lethal it is, I have no qualms about driving mine knowing it's not putting any of that into the air.

[CitroJim]

All this makes me almost feel guilty driving a 'dinosaur' 1.9TD...

I'd love to know just how good (or bad) it is on the particulate front and how an IDI diesel such as the 1.9TD compares to a non-DPF DI engine such as the early HDi...

All I know is that cycling behind a lot lof very new and modern DI engined vehicles is horrible. They stink to high heaven and chuff smoke to a very surprising extent... I'd rather cycle behind a well-maintained older vehicle fitted with an IDI engine any day...

It is interesting that the major developer of the IDI diesel, Ricardo, very much had emissions and pollution in his brief even back in the 1930s when his company did much diesel development work... The first IDI diesel engines fitted with his famous 'Ricardo Comet' pre-chamber were used in AEC London buses and their cleanliness compared to what went before them was a revelation...

It is not generally appreciated that the Citroen/Peugeot XUD engine, of which the 1.9TD is a family member, is in fact British, was designed by Ricardo and features the 'Ricardo Comet' pre-chamber...

It remains one of the very best small IDI diesels ever made... The 2.1TD is possibly the pinnacle...

[myglaren]

I ran my C5 estate on biodiesel for a while - not available anymore unfortunately - and it was only 76p/L.
It had a very slight aroma, not at all unpleasant and vaguely alcohol-like.
Wish I could still get it.

[GiveMeABreak]

That's got to be better than being behind somebody running theirs on chip fat! Worse when you are hungry, but after a while it can get slightly nauseating!

[white exec]

I remember AEC buses in London, some of the RT's, and the non-Leyland Routemasters, which had their engines fitted at the huge AEC works in Southall. I do not recall any of these producing noticeable smoke in service. Noisy, yes; visibly dirty, no.

A classmate's father worked there. One school holiday, while he was 14, he got the chance to drive an RM at the works, including on the skidpan. Lucky lad.

RM's weren't totally good news, though. After the silent and more speedy Trolleybuses, which they replaced, they were somewhat agricultural - a very harsh engine. This was coupled to an auto box, one of the first to be fitted to a double-decker bus. Even new, the change from 1st to 2nd resulted in a considerable forward-backward lurch of the whole vehicle, especially at wide throttle. Standing passengers got to know to anticipate this, and spread feet and hung on tighter at each such upchange. Drivers did their bit, by easing up on the accelerator just as the change came. Before long, it became normal practice for drivers to do the 1-2 shift manually, and then drop the box into automatic. This continued for decades.

Worse was to come, though, when the original engines came up for replacement. All sorts of lumps were tried and fitted, and many ended up with Iveco unit, which might even have been 4-cylinder. This was unbelievably unrefined and harsh, and transmitted unpleasant noise and vibration into the downstairs passenger deck.

Routemaster drivers suffered for their art. No power steering, just a huge almost-horizontal wheel. Cab noise levels were high, and there were sizeable gaps in the floor around the pedals. In winter you froze, and then roasted in the summer, when (for a time) the wearing of shorts was actually banned.

Iconic? Yes. But definitely not the last word in comfort, especially for the crews. My eldest step-son was an RM driver, now a senior London Buses traffic controller.