Xantia amber engine light and no start question/ideas

[ihatecars]

I am worried about my nice old Xantia (1.8 petrol, '95) , she now refuses to start straight away, probably going to get worse.
Everything has been fine, until last night when I turned the key, the engine rolled over on the starter motor but no firing at all, zero. I saw the yellow/amber warning light (with the little engine symbol) on so I assumed there is a electrical fault and the ECU has picked that up. I waited a few seconds and tried again, it started after a few rolls and all was well. I got to my destination, stopped the engine, key out, key in again and she started again just fine, all good.
However 2 hours later to come home, key in, engine rolls on the starter motor but no firing, amber warning light on. This time it took more attempts to get her started, then it did and all was well coming home.

This type of fault usually gets worse, so with the amber warning light coming on, and this is really what my question is about, am I therefore to assume the ECU has detected a fault on one of the sensors or some electrical part it checks and disabled the ignition as it has found a system fault? So I assume my first investigation is to go round the various electrical engine bay connectors and give the contacts a clean and squirt of WD40.

Are there any common failures I could look for? Should everything look fine and the problem continues what are my options? I could go round each sensor and try to electrically test them, or I suppose get one of those electrical diagnostic boxes that plug in, could I hire one?

All suggestions gratefully received, thanks.

[CitroJim]

When the Engine Management light is on the only real way is to have some Lexia/ELIT diagnostics performed to see exactly the cause of the issue(s) otherwise it's a case of poke and hope and that rarely brings good results...

Many members on here offer Lexia Diagnostics

Look at this thread for all members presently offering the service:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 19&t=29178

Hope that helps...

[ihatecars]

Thanks CitroJim I did wonder if poking about would yield any result or not, you've saved me time and effort there thanks. I've contacted a local member to see if they can help.

[CitroJim]

Excellent Keep us all in touch with what happens

[Andy F]

Reply sent, will keep you all posted. Not many Xantias around in our neck of the woods! The only other one i see regularly is my dads

[ihatecars]

YIPPEE! Andy came with his magic box ran a full system test which at first said everything was good, drat. But then he ran more tests but had difficulty in making comm connection to the ECU, so he wiggled the big ECU connector and... BOOM! the engine starts and runs perfectly!! It seems it was just a dodgy connection on one of the pins.
Interesting for me, as I was removing and replacing sensor connectors yesterday, I got to the ECU connector and thought, this could go on forever and made my post in here asking for help. However with the magic box it was possible to test all the sensors, the diagnostic says everything was good so now I feel assured all the sensors are fully working. Perfect!
I'm SO pleased! Thanks a million Andy and to CitroJim and to this forum.

[CitroJim]

Excellent Wonderful news I'm delighted!

Reckon that's got to be worth a small donation to the forum running costs

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =2&t=55869

[Hell Razor5543]

I would suggest that you might want to use some proper contact cleaner on the various connectors. The good stuff will not only clean off any grot (might need a toothbrush to help) but will also help reduce any further buildup.

[CitroJim]

Good thinking James But do not use WD40 or its ilk.. Use proper electronics grade stuff like Electolube or Servisol

[ihatecars]

oh no! gloom! I tried the car again a few hours later and it doesn't fire up! However if I keep trying different things with the alarm code thing it then it fires and runs!? Anyway I have just tried it now (24 hours later from cold) and it doesn't fire. But if I keep entering codes into the alarm it does? But a concern is... it fired and ran but when I switched the igniton off and removed the key the engine continued to run for a few seconds, now that is wierd.
The test with the magic box showed all sensors to be fully working so I figure I don't need to think about them. I think also by disconnecting the ECU it would reset the alarm and so the code needs entering again. My confusion is as I never use the alarm code I don't really know how to use it. I just thought if the green LED was lit, red LED off, ignition was enabled and the engine should run.
I've read the manual and I think something is not right, it says to disable, switch igniton on, enter 4 digit code and press D/F and wait 2 seconds of a beep, the beep doesn't happen.
I also assume, when the alarm disables the car, the starter motor is still active but just the ignition is killed, which is really what my problem is I think, engine turned over on starter motor but not firing. Maybe I go and dismatle the alarm button box and wiggle some connectors.

BTW: I had some Servisol contact cleaner that I used on the ECU.

[ihatecars]

darn it, I'm still having trouble starting the car. It seems very hit and miss, sometimes it takes many turns on the starter and eventually with stop, re-try, off, on, throttle down, up the engine slowly splutters into life. It may struggle at low revs (1200rpm) as if on 3 clyinders so I blip the throttle to "wake it up" and it slowly runs normal. I can't yet work out if cold or hot starting brings the problem on, it seems hit and miss. Sometimes it starts just fine and other times within a second of the battery expiring.

I'm going round the connectors with WD40 and checking hoses for cracks but so far all looks well. Ideas welcome.

[chinkostu]

It could be a dying battery? mine used to roll over really slow on the starter and if the battery dropped low enough it would kick the siren in. maybe the voltage drop is so much that there isn't enough power to actually start the car despite it spinning the starter. check the clamps are good and snug on the terminals.

the only other thing could be the immobiliser has packed up and is draining the battery? would explain the funky keypad issues, there are ways and means of removing the keypad if you get the car going though.

[Mandrake]

Check the permanent live feed for the ECU, which probably comes through the drivers footwell fusebox. (It does on the V6)

I had a similar problem that was preventing me from entering the immobiliser code or starting the engine, although it was also affecting central locking. It turned out to be a broken wire somewhere in the wire bundle that runs under the radiator to the drivers fuse box, and among other things supplied the permanent live to the engine ECU and immobiliser keypad. Without it you can't enter the code or start the engine!

The immobiliser keypad will behave very strangely if the permanent live feed is faulty it still beeps when you press buttons but it won't go green after the code is entered.

[ihatecars]

Thanks for the suggestions. I do use a booster battery and keep the installed one fully charged now I know it needs to withstand a beating.
I think.. now the immobiliser has settled down, as in, the car will "start".. eventually or even straight away as normal! I'm confused.

By reading other posts I experimented with the Manifiold Air Pressure Sensor (MAP) which I assume is the little flat box fed by a tube from the intake manifold, mounted to the left of the oil filler cap, I disconnected the tube (both ends) and blew down it, all seemed clear. Reconnecting at the manifold end, I blocked off the pipe and started the engine, it started but was very lumpy at low revs which suggests (according to another post) the sensor is ok.
My thoughts are the Idle By-Pass valve which I had problems with a years or so ago. I pulled the hose off and made sure the rotary valve is free. However I do hear the valve clicking (being energised) especially just as the engine has been turned off.

A few clues maybe: sometimes it starts perfectly, and then for no reason, it struggles to start. During the faulty starting period the engine can make all sorts of odd sounds, like it's about to self destruct. It's the unpredictability of the fault that puzzles me.

As a test, when booting the engine to get it to rev from a reluctant start, I wanted to check the exhaust for smoke, all seemed clear.

[darbuck]

It could be a failing crank or cam sensor which is what your symptoms are pointing to.

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