107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

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spider
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107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by spider »

Well, kind of. :-k

This relates to the 'first' series of them if the 'newer' ones count as 'new' ?

It seems generally speaking that if you wanted an MMT transmission*** you must have a 5 door C1, although it might be possible to obtain a 3 door 107 with this, Aygo seems available in both.

1.4 HDi seems only available in 5 door in C1 / 107 but in both 3 and 5 door variants in Aygo.

I've not checked or found out if there's an MMT Hdi for the C1 / 107 yet. There is an Aygo one but again I've not determined if this is "door specific"

Most odd. :oops:


*** Do these work properly now ? I recall trying one of the very very first (LHD) 1007's (sliding door) with one of these and it was not very nice at all, on / off clutch making hill starts entertaining as there's no creep unlike a conventional auto, but that's expected given its a manual Yaris box with some actuators running the show.

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CitroJim
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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by CitroJim »

What's an MMT Transmission Andy?

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spider
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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by spider »

CitroJim wrote:What's an MMT Transmission Andy?
Sorry Jim. It has various names but its all the same thing. Its the 'sensodrive' unit or called "Multi Mode Transmission" hence MMT.

Basically a completely normal manual gearbox but with a self adjusting clutch (curious method of auto adjustment, the cover / disc are 'one unit') , need a press or a good vice to 'reset' it but new ones come 'ready' set.

Anyway its a normal, conventional manual gearbox (from the Yaris) fitted to all three: C1/107/Aygo. Same ratios as the manual. It is the same as far as I can really tell apart from the external selector linkages,,, read on:

Motors and sensors (I think three) , two control the gearshift itself and one for the clutch actuation. The summary is there's no 'selector' rod under the car, merely a box of switches with a lever in the centre console.

No 'Park' position although you can leave it in gear and turn it off that way, just as good I guess. I tend to do that with manuals anyway usually 2nd seems ideal.

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by spider »

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimode ... ansmission

Except there's no creep. At least to be fair as mentioned the one I tried was the 1007 and a very very early (prior to official UK release) one did not have any creep function. This was exceedingly annoying to try to crawl up a tiny (1/2 inch) kerb edge to get into the building at the time.

Seems quite a few manufacturers use this, I'm aware Ford have been using it for a few years in their Fiesta (yes I know, enough said) too.

I would expect the early 'beta bugs' have been fixed now though.

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CitroJim
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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by CitroJim »

Oh gosh, I'd not want one of those MMT 'boxes Andy :(

Goes completely against ethos of the car fundamentally being basic and simple with very little to go wrong...

The standard manual gearbox is as smooth as silk and a thing of beauty anyway, as is the clutch, beautifully light and with excellent feel...

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by spider »

CitroJim wrote:Oh gosh, I'd not want one of those MMT 'boxes Andy :(

Goes completely against ethos of the car fundamentally being basic and simple with very little to go wrong...

The standard manual gearbox is as smooth as silk and a thing of beauty anyway, as is the clutch, beautifully light and with excellent feel...
It shows good design in that they have a very light clutch (say compared to a 106 etc) even though its cable operated. I think that's actually due to the far-eastern design of the pedal and transmission units though, they do build quite sensible designs (usually!)

To be fair (apart from the cost of the external sensors and actuators etc) the positive point is I guess if you did have an internal transmission concern there would not be a problem to find a replacement. I would dare say that a conventional manual one could be 'trimmed' to fit.

I do note there are some odd instructions such as you are not permitted to tow it wheels down and to remove the transmission to fit a clutch you need Lexia/Planet etc to set it into a 'disassembly' position beforehand as well as to recode it afterwards.

It is a cheap way of 'building' a 'two pedal' (I'll say 'two pedal' not auto) transmission though so fair credit for that. :) , at least it offers manual mode as well as auto too.

EDIT... Neighbour has some kind of small Mazda or Mitsubishi (looks like a noddy car) that has an MMT as well so it seems quite a lot of manufacturers are doing this.

It could always be worse ;) could be a CVT unit.

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by CitroJim »

What's the problem with a CVT? They were excellent in the old Daf cars ;)

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by spider »

CitroJim wrote:What's the problem with a CVT? They were excellent in the old Daf cars ;)
The RO80 ? I think that was meant to be OK ? I seem to recall there was no brake pedal just a 'mushroom' to press on the floor ?

I seem to think that a CVT may be capable of a very high speed in reverse (in theory at least!) as its not really 'geared down' as such ? Not that I'd try anything like that anyway.

I do note the lack of larger engines with CVT transmissions, they only seemed to suit smaller engines. Then one manufacturer decided to not have a torque converter and instead some kind of variable electromagnetic field to magnetise iron or similar powder to 'act' as the 'link' , I noticed the very last models had a conventional T.C with their CVT and the following model had a conventional 4 speed auto.

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by daviemck2006 »

I had a fiat punto speedgear which was cvt which left to its own devices revved to 5500 rpm on acceleration and stayed there and the speed caught up, or had 7 pre-programmed steps to be heard which you could change with flappy paddles. It was really smooth and responsive and i loved it.

I also had, and documented on this forum, a c2 sensodrive which is the same technology as a mmt. It was a hateful thing. Slow and jerky, got confused between gears so in neutral at some junctions, dreadful in towns, the only time it made sense was on a deserted country road giving it stick. It would spoil the c1/107/aygo and i would never consider one. However if they made a cvt one I would have it in a heartbeat

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by CitroJim »

I really fancy trying a small car with CVT now, especially after your good words on the subject Davie :D

MMT and Sensodrive I don't but if a duff C2 Sensodrive was to find its way to me for peanuts I'd not reject it ;)

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Re: 107/C1/Aygo Differences in mechanical options

Post by demag »

I think Dodge did a CVT Caliber but the reviews weren't good. I have been reconsidering a Sensodrive but am going off the idea as nothing seems to have improved with them. There are loads of low mileage ones for sale, presumably because of box issues. Funny I was watching a YouTube vid last night about CVT. The bloke was raving about them saying how they knock a "normal" auto into fits.

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