type of antifreeze

[KennyW]

Evening All,

Just want to confirm if it is red antifreeze for my C5 x 7.

Kenny

[Lenny]

Good question.

Mine has the original factory stuff in it and it's a sort of yellow colour.

I read somewhere that this is normal from the factory but my local dealer didn't have a clue what I was talking about (although I suspect he didn't have much of a clue about anything).

I'd only lost an eggcup full when I changed the EGR valve so I topped up with this stuff:
http://prestone.com/enmx/products/antifreeze/coolant

[GiveMeABreak]

According to the service book, the coolant doesn't need to be changed on these (!) - Doesn't specify anywhere - but it should be the Ethylene glycol based antifreeze & coolant with OAT (Organic Additive Technology) inhibitors stuff, which is blue from the Citroen Dealer (but I beleive the factory filled stuff is dyed an orange redish colour).

[bobins]

Glysantin G33 or Revkogel 2000 are the specified coolants.... so a bit of Googling is in order to find the equivalents

Doc ref: E4AB010AP0 for anyone who is really really interested !

[jgra1]

hi Kenny, I asked and was given oat red by a trusted factor (but it all leaked out due to an 'issue')

I flushed and went to dealers and got the OE stuff and its blue.... I may still have a bottle and can look at the details.. and I would wage its one of bobins suggestions..

it wasn't expensive from dealers..

John

[white exec]

Do not mix OAT type with any other.
The colour of coolant/antifreeze means nothing; there is no standardisation between manufacturers.

Stick to the car manufacturer's recommendation.
Do not mix types, or top up haphazardly.
If renewing the mix, drain complete system, flush through, and replace with one known type.
Top up with the same.
Keep tapwater out of the system, unless it's known to be very soft. Best to used distilled/de-mineralised.

Mixing coolant types can result in crystallisation, sedimentation, formation of gum/goo, and increased corrosion.
Google for details. Just because you've never been caught out so far, don't risk it.

[Stickyfinger]

I drained mine, refilled with tap water, ran car up to temp, drained again and filled with OAT/Distilled....agree, NEVER MIX

[chinkostu]

I drained mine, refilled with tap water, ran car up to temp, drained again and filled with OAT/Distilled....agree, NEVER MIX

I did this 2 to 3 times to get the crap out of mine when doing the matrix, i got given blue for mine though by the locals! There wasn't anything but water in the end coming out so i guess i'm safe!

Distilled water is really cheap at tesco at the moment too, much cheaper than halfords.

[Mandrake]

I drained mine, refilled with tap water, ran car up to temp,

Not sure that's a good idea, limescale in tap water starts coming out of solution and depositing on metal surfaces above about 67 degrees!

So if you ran it up to 90 degrees for a while and your tap water is not really soft then you have just deposited a whole load of limescale in the cooling system that won't come back out when you drain the system.

I discovered this temperature dependence of limescale deposition the hard way on our (fairly old) central heating last Autumn - I had done a clean/flush and re-fill of the system with inhibitor added straight away during the fill, ran the system for a few weeks, no problem with kettling at all.

I then had a leak that required a drain down to repair a valve, this time I filled the system without any inhibitor to "test" my repairs for leaks for a day or so, on the basis that I didn't want to waste the inhibitor if I had to drain the system down again to have another go at the leak repair, with the intention that once I was satisfied there were no leaks I would drain and re-fill again with inhibitor.

During that one day I ran the system without inhibitor and at its normal winter 75 degree flow temperature - big mistake in hindsight! I started to notice the boiler kettling more easily near its maximum flow temp almost as soon as it was up to temperature, and even after the system was drained and refilled with inhibitor the following day the kettling at maximum temperature remains, almost certainly due to limescale deposit in the boiler heat exchanger. Now I'm faced with trying to descale the heat exchanger before I need high flow temperatures again for the winter...(I've been running it at 60 until I can solve the problem)

So the moral of the story is never run plain tap water without normal inhibitors up to high temperatures in any kind of heating/cooling system, even temporarily, as you're likely to deposit limescale - and we're supposedly in a soft water area too... (the brown muck that forms in the bottom of our baby bottle steam steriliser says otherwise though...)

In hindsight I should have run the system cold (pump only, boiler off) for a while to check for leaks then added the inhibitor and let it circulate for a while to fully mix before allowing the water to heat! As long as the inhibitor is added and fully mixed before the water goes over about 50 degrees limescale won't deposit, certainly not over the short term. But at high temperatures it can deposit very quickly indeed.

[Stickyfinger]

I do not think a few minutes getting the car warmed up then drained whilst still hot will dump loads of scale into the system.

I think you will find the ketteling you had was due to the feed/fill water being oxygenated (mains water is due to it being pressurised) and ketteling on the heat exchanger combined with heat shock. A heat exchanger heats cold water from cold over a very small surface area where an engine will spread that heat over a larger surface area.

[Mandrake]

I think you will find the ketteling you had was due to the feed/fill water being oxygenated (mains water is due to it being pressurised) and ketteling on the heat exchanger combined with heat shock. A heat exchanger heats cold water from cold over a very small surface area where an engine will spread that heat over a larger surface area.

Nope, it's nothing like that. Its a gravity fed system so there's no filling pressure per-se, just the cistern being filled.

The tendency to kettle above a certain temperature has remained the same for over 9 months now so its not oxygenation of the water - that will have dispersed in the first few days, especially as my two upstairs radiators have auto-bleed valves. If I manually bleed the radiators on a cold system absolutely no air comes out of any of them. It's definitely deposits in the heat exchanger, and they were not there before running the system hot for one day without inhibitor.

I'm not sure how the surface area argument helps the car - its the temperature that triggers the calcium carbonate to deposit - an engine has both a higher flow temperature and much more hot internal surface area than the boiler for deposits to form on, so should suffer more from deposits. (although the pathways are obviously much larger in diameter than a boiler, so aren't as easily blocked)

I definitely won't be warming my engine up to normal operating temperature with plain tap water but that's just me!

[white exec]

I think the use of tapwater (unless known to be very soft) in a car's cooling system should be restricted to flushing and the removal of muck - or, as Simon recommends, checking (cold) for leaks. It's also worth taking the trouble to purge the system of as much remaining tapwater as possible when doing the final fill. Demineralised/distilled water is so cheap, it's not worth economising on it.

Some folk will spend vast (and often unnecessary) sums on their motor oil, while at the same time neglecting their cooling system's basic needs. Coolant, unlike oil, just isn't seen as sexy; I blame the advertisers.

I can vouch for the efficacy of Fernox in domestic CH systems. Have had a few, and seen the rust and crud that comes out when plain-water-filled systems are drained down. By contrast, a Fernox'd system drains down clean and slightly yellow and very sweet smelling.

[Stickyfinger]

Fernox F1.....that's the stuff to use. We will not guarantee our radiators without it's use. (And we can test for it)....Avoid Sentinel

As for flushing, that is what I did. Hot drain, ,cooling period, fill with tap, run up and drain hot again, cooling period, then the hose back flushing then fill with OAT.

[chinkostu]

Fernox F1.....that's the stuff to use. We will not guarantee our radiators without it's use. (And we can test for it)....Avoid Sentinel

As for flushing, that is what I did. Hot drain, ,cooling period, fill with tap, run up and drain hot again, cooling period, then the hose back flushing then fill with OAT.

Spot on to me. With the car on high you can get a gallon bucket under the drain tap, makes it dirt simple to change!

[KennyW]

This is why I enjoy reading posts on the forum. I ask about anti freeze and learn about boiler systems. I wish ask this earlier before I changed the boiler.

Kenny