HELP Xsara Desire 2003 - Wiring Loom Problem

[chigurhm]

Hi All,

I have recently purchased a 2003 Citroen Xsara Desire 1.6 Petrol with the following faults:

1. Intermittent blower/fan, mainly not working.
2. Drivers side electric window does not work.
3. Central locking does not work.

Following a few hours of research I found a possible fix for fault 1 using the following video:


and purchased and installed the following part:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-CITROEN-B ... SwBLlVLoZu

This fix worked and the fan is working perfectly.

Faults 2 and 3 seem to be related and I have the same issues as:

http://andysworld.org.uk/2012/06/12/and ... now-fixed/

I have examined the drivers door wiring loom beneath the rubber protection and the thicker green and yellow wire was severed and there is solder present (from a previous owners fix).
I connected the green and yellow wire but the central locking and drivers electric window still does not work.

This post is to hopefully serve two purposes, one to find a possible fix for faults (2 & 3) and the other to pass on a fix for fault (1).

If anyone can suggest any further testing for the central locking and electric window fault it would be much appreciated.

Thank in advance.

Mike

[wheeler]

Closely inspect all the wire in the door loom, separate them all out & feel for cracks in the plastic.

[chigurhm]

Hi Wheeler,

Thanks for the reply and information.

One does have small crack but it does not look like it is shorting.

Can you recommend a method to test the correct wire to see if power is passing at this point? There seems to be 2 thicker wires (including the damaged wire above) and numerous thinner wires which some will be the speakers.

I am not sure which one is the power and also if this is for the central locking and electric window.

Thanks

Mike

[chigurhm]

Update,

Today a mechanic had a look at the car and tested the wires. The wires from the fuse box to the car are ok (with the earth wire fix) but the earth in the door was showing live. A new earth was made in the door and the electric window stared to work and the central locking now works.
The problem I have is that the central locking works when the ignition is on but does not when off.
To avoid changing the loom I was thinking of adding a wire from a permanent live in the car (maybe the CD player) and connecting this to the wire which tests positive for power when the ignition is on but doesn't when the ignition is off. Does this method seem sensible? How can I test the 8-10 wires to determine which wire is live, without disconnecting the plug in the door as it is difficult to get to.

Thanks

Mike

[GiveMeABreak]

I wouldn't recommend this due to the multiplexed wiring system. You could end up with more problems. When you say the CL works with ignition on what exactly are you referring to - operating the button on the dash to lock and unlock the doors or using the key fob?

[chigurhm]

Hi Marc,

When the key is in the ignition and on, the doors shut the CL works - the doors all lock/unlock. When the key is out of the ignition the drivers door only locks and the CL does not engage.
I replaced the key fob battery but this does not work, I am assuming that there is no permanent live to the CL.

Thanks
Mike

[GiveMeABreak]

Hi Marc,
When the key is in the ignition and on, the doors shut the CL works - the doors all lock/unlock.

Yes, but what are you doing to activate the CL? The CL doesn't just engage when the key is put in the ignition. Are you putting the key in the ignition and pressing the locking button on the fob?

When the key is out of the ignition the drivers door only locks and the CL does not engage.

Again - how are you trying to engage the CL - with the fob buttons or by putting the key in the door and turning the lock?
These are important details, although they may seem insignificant, and may throw some more light on the matter.

[chigurhm]

Hi Marc,

The CL is activated by simply pressing the drivers door lock, when the ignition is on all the doors lock and unlock when pressed again.
When the ignition is off the drivers door lock/unlocks only, the other doors remain in the same state.

The buttons don't seem to work on the key fob, although when they ignition is off then there is no power going to the CL (that is what I was thinking anyway).

Mike

[GiveMeABreak]

Mike can you send me a PM with your VIN - I need to look at your car specs to see what the system is, thanks. There were 2 locking systems on the XSARA, depending on build date and each is completely different. One uses a signal from the remote to the Comms 2000 unit and from there to the BSI via the CAN CAR 1 network, the other is more simplified, where the HF plip signal is sent directly to the BSI that incorporates a built in receiver, hence the VIN will tell us which you have.

[chigurhm]

Marc,

I will send you this later tonight.
Thanks for your advice.

Mike

[Paul-R]

Mike can you send me a PM with your VIN - I need to look at your car specs to see what the system is, thanks. There were 2 locking systems on the XSARA, depending on build date and each is completely different. One uses a signal from the remote to the Comms 2000 unit and from there to the BSI via the CAN CAR 1 network, the other is more simplified, where the HF plip signal is sent directly to the BSI that incorporates a built in receiver, hence the VIN will tell us which you have.

Out of interest, is the difference between the two types of COM200 unit the changeover point? i.e. If the horn is on the indicator stalk it's the early one, if it's on the steering wheel boss it's the later one?

If so, then 2003 will be the late one unless it was a veeeeery late dealer registration!

[GiveMeABreak]

In this case (XSARA) it will very likely be the later one as the comms 2000 unit doesn't even seem to appear until July 2001 on this vehicle - most operations being handled directly by the BSI until RPO 9002 (July 2001) when the Comms 2000 came in. Can't say about the horn Paul as that again was directly handled via the BSI on the Pre-July 2001 models.

[Paul-R]

So is RPO9002 the changeover for the later locking mechanism as well then? Or is it only checkable by VIN?

[GiveMeABreak]

From my experience I would always check via VIN Paul, as some technologies get ported over, some don't, then with all the facelifts it can be a bit hit and miss, depending on all the other components in the vehicle and the BSI - although today, many of the BSI modules are more generic - reducing costs again.

[chigurhm]

Hi,
Current Issue:
Central locking only works when the key is in the ignition and on. When I lock the car from outside the central locking and key fob do not work.
Potential Solution:
Determine the wire from the the possible 8 wires which go to the central locking and has a positive voltage when the ignition is on and 0 voltage when not.
Determine which wire within the door is perminently live and can be used with the central locking. The black wire going to the drivers door window is live (ignition on and off).
Below are the results from my tests:
Purple wire -12V when the car is unlocked only
Green wire1 +10V (approx) when the car is locked and continues to be +10V when locked.
0V when unlocked.
Green wire2 10V (approx) all the time when the ignition is on.
Pink wire +10V unlock/unlocked.
Beige wire +10V (approx) all the time when the ignition is on.
Green & Yellow 0V through all testing
Orange wire -12V lock only
Grey wire +10V lock only

I assumed that Green wire2 was the live feed from the ignition so I connected this to the black permanent live wire and tried to unlock/lock the car with the key. This did not work. I tried to do the same thing for the Beige wire and still it did not work. I also tried putting permanet live through both green wire2 and beige but this still did not work.

I thought this might work but I am not sure where to go from here. This test was to get the central locking working all the time, I am not sure about the remote central locking.

Thanks
Mike