New Peugeot 405 owner! and new to the forum! (Need help with repairs!)

[Dimuka405]

Hi everyone!

So I've just bought a my first car which is a 1993 Peugeot 405GR Estate 1.6ltr! It has 233,000km on the clock but the engine has been overhauled (As per the previous owner, No idea why at that mileage) at around 150,000km

Upon purchase there were quite a lot of problems with the car so I was able to reduce to price since I was on a very tight budget.

1.The car was involved in a slight fender bender and the hood is bent (Hardly visible unless to look close enough) and isn't balanced when shut. Any ideas to fix it?

2.When running the car with the A/C on, the engine misfires quite badly (And sometimes cuts off) above 2,500 rpm. (I thought the issue could be from the amplifier module and I replaced it with a used unit, the problem reduced slightly but it is still there).

3.The floater unit in the Solex Carburetor was filled with petrol due it its age and started to flood the carb in traffic or if I was driving slow so I fitted a floater I found from my local spares shop. (I've heard the Solex carbs aren't very good, where can I find a good Weber Unit?)

4.The Engine has a bad head gasket and head, at all rpm's the engine is burning oil but not at a fast rate maybe 500ml top up every 5000km (I travel alot). I think the engine head could have problems like oil leaking through the valves? As for the head gasket, after a 1000km the oil started getting milky, I assumed it was due to the engine not having a PCV Valve (It was removed for some reason) but then when I did an oil change the oil was a green milky color (figured my head gasket was leaking) so I used steel seal and it worked...for now, I couldn't find the correct gasket locally, any online dealers?

5.The car judders (Cabin, steering and the whole car) very violently sometimes during 1st gear in traffic but not when turning (Car makes a tick tick noise at full lock and previous owner has installed a new Valeo clutch recently), Any ideas?

6.Fuel gauge does work but isn't accurate, it shows half ful most of the time but all the way full other times. The fuel level decreases when I turn on the head lights? Same story with temperature Gauge but it is only a slight change when I turn in the lights (Temp gauge works most of the time but it also goes to full even at cold start).

7.While coasting in gear and when I get back on the throttle the I can hear a loud knocking noise and the car judders a bit too.

Other than that the car is great! It rides smooth, blows cold A/C! Thanks in advance for reading and your help!

Regards,
Dimuka from Sri Lanka

[spider]

Welcome.

Some of your questions are beyond my area but I'll answer what I can.

2. Does it misfire under loading anyway ? (even with the A/C off) this could point towards the HT leads breaking down.

3. You are correct they are not brilliant. Ebay would be one cheaper option, you could purchase new but they are very expensive. A manual choke conversion and an overhaul kit for your existing unit would be another choice too.

4. Any blue smoke from the exhaust ? They can burn a bit of oil, bad wear is piston rings on the XU unit. Gasket: Again Ebay. Avoid 'very cheap' gasket kits, they can be more trouble than they are worth.

5. Straight line only ? Inner CV joint can cause vibration / knocking but it tends to get worse with speed. Tick noise at full lock can be outer CV joint. I'd check the obvious first that the mount/bearing halfway along the right hand side driveshaft (if fitted) is in place and that the driveshafts are secure ( ! )

6. Check engine earth straps (both ends) , especially the earth connection where it goes onto the gearbox.

7. I think this is related / the same as (5)

[CitroJim]

Hi Dimuka and welcome to the forum

I would agree with Andy that one or the other of the outer CV joints are worn. The normal test of them is to drive on full-lock in a circle and listen for ticking noises... Inner CV joints can certainly cause bad vibration.

The poor running may be still down to the float issue. Unless the new float in the carburettor is the same as the original and set to have the correct level of fuel in the float chamber then the mixture and running will be very poor indeed. There should be data on the correct fuel level and how to set it in the Service data for the Solex Carburettor.

For issue number 7 also check the engine mountings, particularly the top torque reaction arm and the lower 'donut' mount at the rear of the engine (the one the driveshaft passes through) as oil contamination can rot the rubber 'donut' and allow excessive engine movement. The engine mounts being in poor condition can also cause vibration.

The 405 is a lovely car and well worth working on to make good!

[xantia_v6]

Re the oil consumption, worn exhaust valve guides will cause a cloud of smoke at cold start-up that clears after a few seconds. Worn inlet guides (or worn piston rings) will cause a cloud of smoke after coasting downhill.

Some of your electrical problems (the misfire and gauge problems) could be caused by voltage drop somewhere in the wiring. Can you get a voltmeter and check the voltage to the ignition module and coil and see if it changes when the A/C is switched on?

[Oldpug]

I agree with Spider`s comments.

2/ The AC puts a big load on the engine,I had a 16v 405 and found a big loss of power with it on so I used to switch the AC off if I wanted to "floor it" overtake.
Go for all the simple elementary stuff,plugs,HT leads,distributor cap & rotor.
3/
Those solex carbs gave lots of trouble,particularly the later auto choke ones.If you can find a Weber one that would be great,if it had a manual choke even better.
The only places I know for parts are in the UK and Europe, http://www.peugeotparts.co.uk/ or http://www.serie04.com
Trouble is buying one from those guys and shipping it to Sri Lanka will cost you a fortune? Don't forget they still produce 405`s in Iran and there are 1000`s there.

5 & 7 Got to be a drive shaft

6/ Bad earth,poor or "green" connections,that sort of thing.

4/
Now this is the problem that would worry me the most. Peugeot engines do not need "overhauling ?" at 150000kms,what happened and why?
Back in those days the only problem we had with that engine was valve stem seals going rock hard,causing oil consumption and smoking.
Head gaskets only fail if an engine was ever overheated,so was your engine ever "cooked" ?
I would be nervous taking that engine apart again,its 25 years old,high mileage and has a history.Corrosion of the head and waterways could be a problem,the cylinder head face could be warped? You say it drives OK but the engine oil gets milky.If the head gasket was blown you would get bad starting,miss fire and overheating.I`m thinking the water is getting into the sump from leaking cylinder bore liner seals? a possible legacy of the previous "overhauling problem". You may end up with an engine strip down.
If you do take it apart the only head gasket to use is a Peugeot genuine one and use new cylinder head bolts.You dont have to remove the engine for a linerjob,just head and sump off,quite straightforward. (for a Peugeot mechanic).
Best of luck.

By the way Dimuka my wife and I fell in love with your country,we had a lovely time and are coming back to Sri Lanka next year. (may be with a bag of 405 parts?)



.

[Pug_XUD_KeenAmateur]

Welcome to the Forum and to Peugeot 405 ownership.

I also have a 405, though mine's a diesel estate, which are much the most common variant now in the UK; so I've nothing to add to what's already been said about your engine issues; but do keep posting and if its something I know about, I'll be happy to advise

[spider]

The most alarming thing I've seen with removal of an XU petrol head was two bolts snapped off flush. Likely cause either corrosion caused by not a tiny treat of suitable grease when fitted or corrosion due to water leakage possibly. The car in question ending up having a 'used but good' engine dropped in as it seemed near impossible to extract the bolt remains. Was not my job although I did see it. I can confirm the bolts were undone with a breaker bar and not with a rattle gun.

[Oldpug]

I`ve had a few head bolts snap on XU`s,got scar`s to go with it. Another horror story I found was someone had left out the spacer on the o/side rear head bolt.They then screwed the head bolt right through the block into the water pump housing and damaged the water pump.

[CitroJim]

Another horror story I found was someone had left out the spacer on the o/side rear head bolt.They then screwed the head bolt right through the block into the water pump housing and damaged the water pump.

That is more common than you'd imagine and so easy to do too...

[Dimuka405]

Welcome.

Some of your questions are beyond my area but I'll answer what I can.

2. Does it misfire under loading anyway ? (even with the A/C off) this could point towards the HT leads breaking down.

3. You are correct they are not brilliant. Ebay would be one cheaper option, you could purchase new but they are very expensive. A manual choke conversion and an overhaul kit for your existing unit would be another choice too.

4. Any blue smoke from the exhaust ? They can burn a bit of oil, bad wear is piston rings on the XU unit. Gasket: Again Ebay. Avoid 'very cheap' gasket kits, they can be more trouble than they are worth.

5. Straight line only ? Inner CV joint can cause vibration / knocking but it tends to get worse with speed. Tick noise at full lock can be outer CV joint. I'd check the obvious first that the mount/bearing halfway along the right hand side driveshaft (if fitted) is in place and that the driveshafts are secure ( ! )

6. Check engine earth straps (both ends) , especially the earth connection where it goes onto the gearbox.

7. I think this is related / the same as (5)

Thanks for the quick reply!

2.The engine does not misfire when the A/C is off (It does a bit when in high gear but low rpm), that's why I think it is an electrical issue. I have installed a new ignition coil and equiem (not sure of spellings) leads but the problem is still there.

3.I checked and a new carb costs around 700euro! So maybe a later purchase?

4.Yes alot all the time but sometimes it goes away but I can still smell burning oil. Couldn't find a gasket online but will keep looking.

5.I checked the CV joints and looks like the outer CV has been re-built instead of replaced, Again I couldn't find the right one so i'll have to keep looking. Driveshaft looks fine and the boots are in good condition.

6.Earth straps are connected properly, Maybe bad wiring?

Thanks for the help! I will keep you updated

[Dimuka405]

Hi Dimuka and welcome to the forum

I would agree with Andy that one or the other of the outer CV joints are worn. The normal test of them is to drive on full-lock in a circle and listen for ticking noises... Inner CV joints can certainly cause bad vibration.

The poor running may be still down to the float issue. Unless the new float in the carburettor is the same as the original and set to have the correct level of fuel in the float chamber then the mixture and running will be very poor indeed. There should be data on the correct fuel level and how to set it in the Service data for the Solex Carburettor.

For issue number 7 also check the engine mountings, particularly the top torque reaction arm and the lower 'donut' mount at the rear of the engine (the one the driveshaft passes through) as oil contamination can rot the rubber 'donut' and allow excessive engine movement. The engine mounts being in poor condition can also cause vibration.

The 405 is a lovely car and well worth working on to make good!

Thanks for the detailed reply!

The inner CV looks fine but the outer CV has been re-built and not replaced, so it could be the cause of the vibration. Also the engine mounts are in a bad condition and will be replaced soon as I find the parts!

I have set the float to the given level in the manual which is 33.5mm and the floater unit is for this specific carb so I don't think that could be an issue.

All in all the car is perfect! its very comfy and has lots of space for my stuff! My first drive i took it around the countryside which is like 700km and thats when i found all the problems

Will keep everyone updated with progress!

[Dimuka405]

Re the oil consumption, worn exhaust valve guides will cause a cloud of smoke at cold start-up that clears after a few seconds. Worn inlet guides (or worn piston rings) will cause a cloud of smoke after coasting downhill.

Some of your electrical problems (the misfire and gauge problems) could be caused by voltage drop somewhere in the wiring. Can you get a voltmeter and check the voltage to the ignition module and coil and see if it changes when the A/C is switched on?

I'm sure I have both those problems in my head, Will have to find the right parts then start fixing soon. I noticed last night that it does not have a peugeot alternator installed! It has a Nissan unit but the same output amp. I will check the rest of the wiring soon and update

[Dimuka405]

I agree with Spider`s comments.

2/ The AC puts a big load on the engine,I had a 16v 405 and found a big loss of power with it on so I used to switch the AC off if I wanted to "floor it" overtake.
Go for all the simple elementary stuff,plugs,HT leads,distributor cap & rotor.
3/
Those solex carbs gave lots of trouble,particularly the later auto choke ones.If you can find a Weber one that would be great,if it had a manual choke even better.
The only places I know for parts are in the UK and Europe, http://www.peugeotparts.co.uk/ or http://www.serie04.com
Trouble is buying one from those guys and shipping it to Sri Lanka will cost you a fortune? Don't forget they still produce 405`s in Iran and there are 1000`s there.

5 & 7 Got to be a drive shaft

6/ Bad earth,poor or "green" connections,that sort of thing.

4/
Now this is the problem that would worry me the most. Peugeot engines do not need "overhauling ?" at 150000kms,what happened and why?
Back in those days the only problem we had with that engine was valve stem seals going rock hard,causing oil consumption and smoking.
Head gaskets only fail if an engine was ever overheated,so was your engine ever "cooked" ?
I would be nervous taking that engine apart again,its 25 years old,high mileage and has a history.Corrosion of the head and waterways could be a problem,the cylinder head face could be warped? You say it drives OK but the engine oil gets milky.If the head gasket was blown you would get bad starting,miss fire and overheating.I`m thinking the water is getting into the sump from leaking cylinder bore liner seals? a possible legacy of the previous "overhauling problem". You may end up with an engine strip down.
If you do take it apart the only head gasket to use is a Peugeot genuine one and use new cylinder head bolts.You dont have to remove the engine for a linerjob,just head and sump off,quite straightforward. (for a Peugeot mechanic).
Best of luck.

By the way Dimuka my wife and I fell in love with your country,we had a lovely time and are coming back to Sri Lanka next year. (may be with a bag of 405 parts?)



.

Hi Oldpug ! thanks for the detailed reply!

2.Yes when the A/C Compressor kicks in, there is a very noticable drop in power, I don't drive fast because of it

3.Yes even this carb is giving me issues since buying, I've had the idle solenoid blocked twice now and petrol leak (Wouldn't Idle this morning) from the back of the carb After installing the new floater eveything is alot better but I'm missing my Manual choke cable (Its broken and not connected to the carb) so starting the car cold is a hassle!

4.I asked the previous owner the same but he had no idea exactly why, he said his mechanic told him to do it apparently (Mechanics in Sri Lanka are crooks and will do anything to get a quick buck, Hence why I fix my car myself ) My head will have to be phased and rebuilt, the car has run hot previously and recently (Radiator hose blew while on the motorway and i stopped it in time but the engine had already overheated) so im guessing the gasket is probably like a piece of burnt toast now , The milky oil stopped when I used steel seal and the engine currently does not run hot, Fan kicks in at 95c and with A/c its 75c. Yeah I am afraid to tear it down too, Don't what other problems are in there waiting to suprise me so Im going to wait till I have the right parts (Hard to find here)

5. Looks like the outer CV joint and the engine mounts (Bad bad condition, replacing soon)

6.Earth is fine, seems to be a wiring short somewhere.

I am glad to hear that! Most people haven't heard of Sri Lanka much! Right now I'm need of alot of parts, but I really appreciate your words I dont want to trouble you, and by the way i'd be happy to give you tips on which parts of SL is good (I'm a former hotelier) I've heard there are many spares in Iran? Kind of hard to find though

[Oldpug]

Hi Oldpug ! thanks for the detailed reply!

I am glad to hear that! Most people haven't heard of Sri Lanka much! Right now I'm need of alot of parts, but I really appreciate your words I dont want to trouble you, and by the way i'd be happy to give you tips on which parts of SL is good (I'm a former hotelier) I've heard there are many spares in Iran? Kind of hard to find though

Hi Dimuka,

It looks as if your on the right track and getting things sorted.I think your main problem will be getting spares? 405 parts are easily found in Europe,Africa etc but by the time they are shipped they are expensive.You will just have to "Google round the world",have you tried Australia? lots of Pugs out there,cant remember the web site??
"Ausi Frogs" or something like that.

Nice to hear you're a former hotelier and thank you for the offer of tips on travel.
We stayed on the beach at Kalutara last time and also did a two day inland tour staying overnight by the river at Kandy.Traveling by road out there is not for the faint hearted !! hilarious !! I`m so glad we hired a driver,he was wicked,at the end of the tour I was calling him Lewis Hamilton
Next year we may go again,thinking of Uda Walawe National Park and another beach hotel similar to the Royal Palm at Kalutara.?
We better not turn this topic into a travel site so please feel free to PM me with any tips or recommendations.All the best.

[Goc3k]

Hi Dimuka, looks like you got some great responses already. I don't know this engine specifically but I do love wasting my life on ancient petrol cars.

The only point not touched was your wonky bonnet, aside from a new one a quick an easy solution is to simply panel beat the damaged area back into a rough shape and then use a set of bonnet pins to stop it lifting or wobbling when driving at speed. Doesn't look great but is a nice easy (and cheap) solution.

I would agree with the other guys on checking the rear centre engine mount, a lot of your listed problems sound like you have a bad one.

From my experience with old petrol engines - check your alternator output first, voltage and amperage with and without load. Early 1st and 2nd gen internally regulated alternators don't last much past 80k miles without a rebuild, check from the alternator all the way down the ignition system if you can.

You didn't mention if the distributor is okay, later electronic dizzy's are normally pretty solid even at higher miles, certainly take a look at the easily serviced rotor and cap though.

Repair the engine before trying to repair the carb (this will sort out several issues, and make later diagnostics much easier), and I'd strongly advise against trying to swap it for a Weber unless you have a very free cash flow and a lot of time, you need to get everything working as it is before trying a swap at any rate. Solex make cheap carbs, but they're fine for this application. it's hauled the car a long way already after all.

Let us know how it goes, and do ask if you get trouble, everyone is very helpful.