New Xantia!

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aerodynamica
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1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

I now have my dream Xantia! it's a Mk1 Sinker 1.9 TD VSX in light colour :luv:

Question though: It has a non-functioning temperature gauge. It shows 18degrees for about a minute then goes haywire (-60 deg, 88 deg etc) then goes blank and flashes. Can't have it all :rofl2: but would anyone know if it's the temp sensor or an earth or somthing that is most suspect? Also, where is the temp sensor located? Couldn't see any obvious sign of it on the mirrors.

Thanks in advance!
Graeme M
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Re: New Xantia!

Post by elma »

It should be in the dimple on the underside of the drivers mirror. Could be that or a bad earth, mines crazy too.

You've got yourself one of my favourite Xantias, congratulations.
aerodynamica
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Location: Glasgow
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Ah, thanks well I'll have a look in due course, needs a front centre sphere (despite a recent invoice from a well known UK Citroen specialist showing all spheres checked... they got it well wrong - centre sphere was at 45 bar... )

Photos to follow soon, a good few cosmetic things to deal with first!
Graeme M
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aerodynamica
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1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Well, I've had the Xantia for just over a week now and have swapped some of the new parts from the silver hornet, new headlights, indicators and the stereo etc. So the Gold Xantia is beginning to look good.

There were a few new parts came with the car, two new door mirrors - changed out and looking good BUT! no sign of any temperature sensor !? I couldn't find anything in the mirror nor any connections. Is the temperature sensor definatey found in the mirror on an early series one car?

The really odd thing is that if it is found that the mirror was replaced in the past with the wrong one having no sensor in it (and the same mistake has happened again!) then why does the temp readout show various temperatures (-60 to 66 to 80 degrees) instead of simply always blank? Well, it does go blank eventually...

Hydractive II on the Xantia. I find the rear suspension to be unbearably soft and floaty so I checked the action of the electro valves and they both energise front and rear, then the spheres - centre rear is newly fitted, 50 bar, the corner pair each showing 37 bar on the sphere tester with a tiny damper hole so seems to be as near as on spec. It rides fine on firm mode. I just feel the 50 bar centre sphere is too soft, at some stages the rear end pitches up and down like a crazy thing while the front end behaves all the time. I have resorted to replacing the centre sphere with a 40 bar sphere with damper so effectively it's double damped for the centre. It is now riding well in soft mode but I was hoping to get to the bottom of the odd ride. After stopping and locking the doors, the suspension soon clicks to stiff mode and the rear end feels fairly firm as expected that's why I'm thinking there's something amiss in the centre sphere/ or firmness regulator.

I've ran a 1993 XM SD with Hydractive II and a 1992 XM SEi Turbo with Hydractive 1 and neither of them rode this way at the rear - any advice? does the H2 on the Xantia ride this crazy way for real?


Anyway, otherwise it's a simply smashing dream Xantia :)
Graeme M
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aerodynamica
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Pics!

It's a sinker! it has sinked :D
Image
Two sinkers - living the dream!!
Image

Swapped the new headlights from the silver hornet to the 'new' one.
Image

Image

The silver hornet from the new sinker
Image

Crappy 'view from the flat' shot - but couldn't resist after I managed to get a parking spot in view of the window (rare..)
Image

Some preventative maintenance - solving the potential rot spots of the Xantia..
Image
To fix this little rot spot
Image

Image
Image

Sorry! photo overload
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Image

And just incase gold isn't your thing here's the silver hornet again!
Image
I'm going to miss the hornet but the gold Xantia replaces it. It goes well but the miles are getting a bit ripe and the clutch is starting to judder and slip with the turbo kicking in. Best to store it until the MOT is out in September and then I think it's to be broken for the useful spares (ABS sensors, HP pump etc..)
Graeme M
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Re: New Xantia!

Post by jgra1 »

Good stuff aero ;)
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Re: New Xantia!

Post by xantia_v6 »

I suspect that your car may have estate (or non-hydractive) rear corner spheres fitted. These make the rear of the car feel too soft and a little unstable.
aerodynamica
Donor 2023
Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Cheers chaps, thing is I tested the spheres on a sphere tester and they were more or less on spec.AAbout 35 bar. I think the estate ones are 40bar? Besides it's when the centre sphere is in circuit that it's crazy. It's bang on just now with the temporary centre sphere.
Graeme M
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Re: New Xantia!

Post by Mandrake »

Yep, wrong strut spheres fitted. The rears should only be 30 bars on a hatchback, 40 for an estate! (Post the part numbers off the spheres if they're readable)

This will completely screw up the damping, because not only is the pressure wrong, the damper valves in the estate spheres are completely wrong for a hatchback. That is why it is so under damped, not because of the centre sphere.

Estates and Hatchbacks need different spheres because the diameter of the rear hydraulic rams are different - 35mm for hatchback, 40mm for Estate. For a given sphere reducing the ram diameter makes the springing softer and the damping weaker, hence what you are noticing if estate strut spheres are fitted on a hatchback.

You really don't want to be fitting a sphere with a damper valve to the centre position - there are already two damper valves inside the block that the sphere screws on to... so you have largely neutered the functioning of the Hydractive system.

Change the strut spheres to the correct hatchback spheres (they need to be the correct spheres with the correct damper valves, don't just drop the pressure) and put the correct 50 bar with no damper valve sphere back in the centre and the ride will be just fine ;)

By the way, sounds like you're unsure how a Hydractive 2 Xantia should ride - I'm onto my third Hydractive 2 Xantia now and have a pretty good idea of how they should ride and handle - you're welcome to have a ride in my Xantia V6 some time as a comparison, I wouldn't say the ride is perfect (it needs drop links and track rod ends and still has a minor air leak ingress into the hydraulics somewhere so can occasionally be a little harsh) but it does ride fairly well and it is not at all floaty at the back.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
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aerodynamica
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

When I first got my XM turbo the previous owner has fitted non hydractive treats on to that and it was dreadful, he said it had comfort spheres but they seemed to be the same spec as Xantia non hydractive. Ideally I'd like to modify the hydractive to make stiff mode stiffer and soft mode just the same(art the front that is) but in the past I've found itsharder to go beyond a maximum stiffness with hydro pneumatic than to go beyond a maximum softness due I think to the minimum pressure you can have in the sphere so as not to make it fail. Anyway or does ride well now but if anything I might renew the rear corner spheres to the right ones and go from there.
I loved the hydractive on my XMs but I've always thought it would be much better on the xantia andit's true! Much better chassis so I'm keen to get it working properly
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
aerodynamica
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Posts: 1299
Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Cheers mandrake it is looking like the rears are wrong after all. The previous owner supplied an invoice for the spheres being ' checked', and 5 regassed, one replaced (rear centre) - it wasn't a cheap bill but they seem to have screwed up. Haha, apparently it was the ' young guy'..

Not sure I agree the fitment of a damped sphere in the centre negates the hydractive as its damper is stronger than those fitted in the firmness regulator so for independent left or right. Wheel movements it'll serve to damp that volume of fluid each (discounting the corner damper effects that is) it is where both wheels move together that the damping would be greatly increased.

Believe me in practice out still works well with a distinct difference between firm and soft.

Thanks for the offer, would be nice to have a go in a v6 :)
Graeme M
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Re: New Xantia!

Post by Mandrake »

aerodynamica wrote:Cheers mandrake it is looking like the rears are wrong after all. The previous owner supplied an invoice for the spheres being ' checked', and 5 regassed, one replaced (rear centre) - it wasn't a cheap bill but they seem to have screwed up. Haha, apparently it was the ' young guy'..
These days when you can buy decent IHFS spheres for a reasonable price there isn't much point to regassing... When I lived in NZ where spheres were hideously expensive it was worthwhile! :-D

I put a full new set of spheres on the V6 when I got it in 2014, the rear ones were completely punctured... They're coming up on two years old in another month or so. I'd say that the ride is slightly firmer than it was when I first put them on but not much, so they seem to be lasting well.
Not sure I agree the fitment of a damped sphere in the centre negates the hydractive as its damper is stronger than those fitted in the firmness regulator so for independent left or right. Wheel movements it'll serve to damp that volume of fluid each (discounting the corner damper effects that is) it is where both wheels move together that the damping would be greatly increased.
I'm not saying that it won't work, just that anything that you do to stiffen the centre sphere is only going to reduce the difference between soft and hard modes, thus somewhat neutering its ability to change the handling/ride characteristic under computer control.

I played around with the tuning of my first HA2 Xantia a lot and found that I kept coming back to pretty much stock. About the only modification that I preferred was reducing the bypass holes in the damper valves in the "firmness regulator" slightly - I reduced them from 1.1mm to 0.9mm which took away the slight floatiness that car had but still left the ride very smooth and stable.

I wouldn't bother trying to do that modification on the V6 I have now though - with UK road salt the pipe fittings etc are rusty enough that I'd rather not touch them, whereas the one in NZ everything was rust free and like new underneath!

By the way, don't spend too much time trying to tune the centre sphere or damper until you have the correct strut spheres on, because the two interact in a somewhat counter intuitive way in soft mode. It turns out that when the strut spheres get low in gas and become stiffer, this makes the hard mode stiffer (as you would expect) but actually reduces the damping in the soft mode causing the soft mode to become a bit wallowy over large undulations and seem like it doesn't have enough damping. Regassing/replacing the strut spheres in this situation actually restores normal damping in soft mode!

I think the reason for this is due to the two parallel paths that the oil can flow when you hit a bump in soft mode - it can either go into the strut sphere, or it can go into the centre sphere or in reality a bit of both. The strut spheres have small bypass holes and stiff leaf valves so they will not pass any significant flow for gentle movements, forcing all that flow into the centre sphere through the much softer damper valves in the firmness regulator.

When everything is balanced properly if you hit a large undulation in the road a good part of the resultant oil flow goes in to the strut sphere and then is "trapped" there and only released very slowly by the stiff damper valve - so the rebound damping for a large undulation is quite strong. A gentle movement only passes into the centre sphere so only has soft damping for the rebound. Effectively HA2 in soft mode is a multi-stage variable damping system where the degree of damping on the rebound depends on the nature of the initial movement/impact, (which affects what proportion of the oil goes in/out of the strut spheres vs the centre sphere) rather than having a fixed tuning.

If the strut spheres are low in gas it forces even large undulations to be absorbed by the centre sphere thus the rebound is not as well damped and the car feels like it is lacking in damping. I've seen this on two cars now where a good centre sphere but relatively flat strut spheres caused the soft mode to seem quite wallowy. As soon as the strut sphere were replaced the soft mode damping actually firmed up.

In your case you have the wrong damper valves in the strut spheres though, which complicates things even more. If it were me I'd throw on two new strut spheres and put the original centre sphere back in place and evaluate it again to see if you like the result and go from there.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
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Re: New Xantia!

Post by white exec »

Agree with all that. It's best to start from a standard, to-spec sphere configuration, all properly gassed - and then make a judgement about suspension performance. If you start from an unknown or oddball set-up, you could end up going round in both mental and physical circles!
Chris
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Joined: 26 Dec 2007, 18:10
Location: Glasgow
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My Cars: 2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD VSX Mk1 Sinker A.K.A Slugmobile 13'
'Old Katy'
previous convictions: totaling 52litres of LHM in one go:
1968 ID19B 'Old Polly' Stellar white
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker Silver
1992 XM 2.0 SEi Turbo Manual Anthracite Grey
1982 CX 20 Pallas 'Old Goldy'
1993 XM 2.1 SD Auto Light blue
1993 Xantia 1.9 TD SX Mk1 Sinker light Blue
1982 BX 16 TRS 'Cyril' Vallelunga Red
1995 Xantia 1.9 D SX Auto Dark green
1977 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Aphrodite' Regatta Blue
1982 GSA Pallas SE Silver Pearl
1980 CX 2000 Reflex Vallelunga Red
1978 CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic 'Prometheus' Midnight blue
1984 BX 14E 'Cecil the slugmobile' Maroon
1987 Fiat Panda 'the mighty panda'
x 97

Re: New Xantia!

Post by aerodynamica »

Cheers Simon, yes that's what I'll do - I have lots of spare spheres but they're all too high pressure/ damper etc. I'll call AEP and see if they have a pair available.
Graeme M
2008 C5 Exclusive Tourer 2.0 HDi
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