Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
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Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
1994 Xantia 1.9D
Here's an upside down pic of my battery tray. It's now an occasional car so had a few rides out, today it failed to start when hot, like usual when I go somewhere on a drive then stop at a shop. I jumped it and Got it going but it triggered the feeble toy alarm to come on all the way back. This seemed like a good opportunity to get the battery off for a charge properly, I'd put this off all winter and kept running mains out to the street instead!
So story so far, I've added new battery terminals, they are decent and wires wedged in to them. It's been a pig all winter with cold starts and these run-hot stops too. I've not changed any cables yet. These crusty earth points can't help though. As a bodge I've wedged the thin one in with the other thin one with a washer at the bottom. What is that one? And the 2 into one at the top I've broke off, stripped wires back and wedged under a washer in between the front wing and the grey support the wings hold on to, so must be a better connection even though not perfect! Most of these run back to a connection block behind the battery with other wires bolted down. So much of it going back n forth.
I might have a drive out tomorrow and see if improved though I'm wondering if I should get new cables and connectors now and do it properly... Any advice on best way welcome. Cheers
Here's an upside down pic of my battery tray. It's now an occasional car so had a few rides out, today it failed to start when hot, like usual when I go somewhere on a drive then stop at a shop. I jumped it and Got it going but it triggered the feeble toy alarm to come on all the way back. This seemed like a good opportunity to get the battery off for a charge properly, I'd put this off all winter and kept running mains out to the street instead!
So story so far, I've added new battery terminals, they are decent and wires wedged in to them. It's been a pig all winter with cold starts and these run-hot stops too. I've not changed any cables yet. These crusty earth points can't help though. As a bodge I've wedged the thin one in with the other thin one with a washer at the bottom. What is that one? And the 2 into one at the top I've broke off, stripped wires back and wedged under a washer in between the front wing and the grey support the wings hold on to, so must be a better connection even though not perfect! Most of these run back to a connection block behind the battery with other wires bolted down. So much of it going back n forth.
I might have a drive out tomorrow and see if improved though I'm wondering if I should get new cables and connectors now and do it properly... Any advice on best way welcome. Cheers
Last edited by reanimation on 23 May 2016, 10:52, edited 1 time in total.
- white exec
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
I'm surprised it actually started at all! Crikey, I think some serious rust proofing is needed a bit quick before the bottom falls out. brush what you can off and get copious amounts of Jenolite on there to convert the rest of the rusty metal, then a bit of primer and some paint I would suggest. Looking at those connectors, I would suggest replacing them as you don't know how far / deep that rust has penetrated inside the wiring. Now's the weather to do it!
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
Marc
Marc
Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
Crikey indeed, what a mess to clean up. Most likely there was a leaky battery at some point - perhaps venting with the vent pipe missing causing acidic water to pool under the battery. Sulfuric acid sure eats through steel!
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
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1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
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- white exec
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
Would suggest you remove those earth connections from there, and re-anchor to a good cleaned-back chassis point elsewhere. Paint any cleaned-back metal after the new connections have been made.
Starter-motor/battery grounding and connections need to be in first-class condition for everything to work well.
Good advice above about rustproofing that area.
Starter-motor/battery grounding and connections need to be in first-class condition for everything to work well.
Good advice above about rustproofing that area.
Chris
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
Thanks. It's quite nasty isn't it. It's a 22 year old car now and I'm used to Fords so it's not a mega surprise. I'm going to find some more wires and terminals to refit them else where to a shiny bit of metal.
What gauge are these cables? I'll need to find big ring connectors too. and maybe a new big cable to gearbox too even though it looks alright...
What gauge are these cables? I'll need to find big ring connectors too. and maybe a new big cable to gearbox too even though it looks alright...
- white exec
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1992 BX19D Millesime hatch LHD
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
An electrical wholesaler will be able to provide some big crimp-on ring connectors.
Trim back to clean copper on the cable (cores may have oxidised to black: you need clean copper), and solder the new terminal on, to be sure.
Same wholesaler should also have 'welding cable' (heavy duty and multi-strand) in stock and by-the-metre. Use this for starter motor main circuits/earthing straps.
Trim back to clean copper on the cable (cores may have oxidised to black: you need clean copper), and solder the new terminal on, to be sure.
Same wholesaler should also have 'welding cable' (heavy duty and multi-strand) in stock and by-the-metre. Use this for starter motor main circuits/earthing straps.
Chris
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
Great advice Thank you. I'm plucking items from ebay and don't know sizes etc as car is at home. will have a look later. Will need a big one 25mm might be overkill, and need the slimmer auxilary cables and crimps. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POSITIVE-EART ... 76f26d8ec1
EDIT _ ordered for negative side a big 25mm 90cm long earth cable with 8-10mm ring, some 6mm wire and some 6mm ring connectors...
probably should order some flap discs too! And sunshine...
EDIT _ ordered for negative side a big 25mm 90cm long earth cable with 8-10mm ring, some 6mm wire and some 6mm ring connectors...
probably should order some flap discs too! And sunshine...
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold
Update.
I'm presuming I have only made this better...
I was against the clock yesterday but here's the cleaned up under batt area, What are these connection/wires for?? I've only replaced 1 connector and not the wire. Mounted to bare metal on side
The original Gearbox mount cable didn't look too good after all!
I've replaced it with a 25mm one. I've attached the original under tray cables (6mm x2) too to the thick metal next to the engine mount, see electrical tape. That'll work fine right?
I had forgot it continues under the batt tray from the gearbox I've used 6mm x2 wires.
Batt back in place, dunno if it's fully fixed yet, started ok...
I'm presuming I have only made this better...
I was against the clock yesterday but here's the cleaned up under batt area, What are these connection/wires for?? I've only replaced 1 connector and not the wire. Mounted to bare metal on side
The original Gearbox mount cable didn't look too good after all!
I've replaced it with a 25mm one. I've attached the original under tray cables (6mm x2) too to the thick metal next to the engine mount, see electrical tape. That'll work fine right?
I had forgot it continues under the batt tray from the gearbox I've used 6mm x2 wires.
Batt back in place, dunno if it's fully fixed yet, started ok...
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and lots of Rovers before that: 1935 Ten, 1947 Sixteen, 1960 P5 3-litre, 1966 P6 2000, 1972 P6 2000TC, and 1975 P6B 3500S - x 1752
Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
Some really ugly and weathered connections there.
What you have done has to be much better.
Really glad the car is starting again.
Worth protecting those bolt-down earthing points with a dob of grease (or rustproofing wax) after you've bolted down on to clean metal.
For taping up, ordinary pvc insulation tape tends to fall off in the heat. Better is to get hold of some self-amalgamating tape, usually available black and 12-15mm wide. You wind this on, just like ordinary insulation tape, but stretch it (by about 100%) as you do. That way, it forms a one-piece sleeve over the cables.
What you have done has to be much better.
Really glad the car is starting again.
Worth protecting those bolt-down earthing points with a dob of grease (or rustproofing wax) after you've bolted down on to clean metal.
For taping up, ordinary pvc insulation tape tends to fall off in the heat. Better is to get hold of some self-amalgamating tape, usually available black and 12-15mm wide. You wind this on, just like ordinary insulation tape, but stretch it (by about 100%) as you do. That way, it forms a one-piece sleeve over the cables.
Chris
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
Thank you, a friend suggested copper grease dabbed on, I think I might try that.
Will look up tape too. Good tip. Cheers.
I bet my test drive will be to MOT unless I get out one evening before!
Also the main 25mm Cable I picked 915mm longer for caution but is a bit too long really but works.
Will look up tape too. Good tip. Cheers.
I bet my test drive will be to MOT unless I get out one evening before!
Also the main 25mm Cable I picked 915mm longer for caution but is a bit too long really but works.
Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
Self amalgamating tape also provides a completely waterproof seal if done properly, (stretch and wind it back 50% over itself on each turn) standard electrical tape does not provide a waterproof seal.white exec wrote:Some really ugly and weathered connections there.
What you have done has to be much better.
Really glad the car is starting again.
Worth protecting those bolt-down earthing points with a dob of grease (or rustproofing wax) after you've bolted down on to clean metal.
For taping up, ordinary pvc insulation tape tends to fall off in the heat. Better is to get hold of some self-amalgamating tape, usually available black and 12-15mm wide. You wind this on, just like ordinary insulation tape, but stretch it (by about 100%) as you do. That way, it forms a one-piece sleeve over the cables.
I'm not sure that it is particularly high temperature rated though, when I had a hole in a spark plug lead on my old V6 I used self amalgamating tape around the plug wire - which passes directly over the top of the cam box in an area of fairly high temperature, after about 3 months it went hard and failed! Also I wrapped some around some copper pipe on our central heating pipe work so that I could use an IR gun to measure the flow temperature - after about 6 months it has gone completely hard and crazed and can't be removed off the pipe - it is completely baked on! So I'd say the maximum temperature it can withstand long term is less than about 60 degrees.
Should be fine over near the wing in the engine bay, but keep it away from the engine or exhaust.
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
Blimey Eddie, That looks clean and new compared! Thanks
I have used self amalgamating tape on bike frames a mate gave me some to stop chain slap etc.
I've ordered some will be a good clue to see how hot things get then...
I have used self amalgamating tape on bike frames a mate gave me some to stop chain slap etc.
I've ordered some will be a good clue to see how hot things get then...
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Re: Crusty earths might be why S1 doesn't start unaided hot/cold Earths REPLACED...
You may well find that good hardware stores will carry self amalgamating tape.
James
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