Afternoon.
Here's the tale of my woes......
3 weeks ago my van suffered power loss whilst doing 20ish mph through a village. Was fine until I went through some speed restrictions. Gave it a little bit of throttle and it bogged, just wouldn't pick up. Pulled over and tried to nurse the revs up. It got as far as 3000rpm but wouldn't go any further. After coming off the throttle a rattle developed. Sounded top end/cam chain area so switched it off sharpish and waited for the AA. No warning lights of any sort came on, and nor have they since.
AA chap thought it sounded around the cam chain area too so arranged for a recovery truck.
3.5hrs later it's recovered and taken to the garage we use.
The garage have a brief look as its late in the day. Apparently it needed 2.5lt of oil!?! Topped it up and started it but still rattles. They suspected internal engine failure but I wasn't so sure. Top cover taken off to expose camshaft and chain. No slack on chain. I suggested a possible injector issue for the power loss and rattle, so all 4 were removed and tested. Apparently, all 4 have an electrical fault of some sort. I also asked them to check the turbo and intercooler to see if it'd sucked the oil out but it would appear not.
They still suspect that there's an internal issue causing the rattle.
Any ideas or suggestions are much appreciated.
Cheers, Mark
2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Well, 3,000RPM is the rev limited 'get you home' function. I had it occur once after I used some EGR valve cleaner. I suggest you get the van onto a Lexia (there are members of the forum who have these, and are willing to help out). Generic code readers will not read PSA car codes properly, if at all. Here is the list of FCF members with a Lexia;
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 19&t=29178
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 19&t=29178
James
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Cheers for the reply James, very much appreciated. The garage did say there was no faults stored, which I thought was odd, but it would now make sense.
I'll get the van put back together and see who's closest to Aylesbury.
Many thanks, Mark.
I'll get the van put back together and see who's closest to Aylesbury.
Many thanks, Mark.
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle -Update
Morning folks.
A quick update regarding my van. It's been put back together and obviously runs rough. However, what the garage have discovered is that if you squeeze the primer bulb whilst running, the rattle disappears! So it would appear it's low fuel pressure that's an issue. I bloody knew it wasn't an internal fault, it just didn't sit right with me.
So next step is to get it on lexia and go from there.
Can anybody tell me if these injectors are coded? And where's best to source them from? We've been quoted £260 each.
Many thanks, Mark.
A quick update regarding my van. It's been put back together and obviously runs rough. However, what the garage have discovered is that if you squeeze the primer bulb whilst running, the rattle disappears! So it would appear it's low fuel pressure that's an issue. I bloody knew it wasn't an internal fault, it just didn't sit right with me.
So next step is to get it on lexia and go from there.
Can anybody tell me if these injectors are coded? And where's best to source them from? We've been quoted £260 each.
Many thanks, Mark.
Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle -Update
This seems like a non-sequitur to me - if your problem is low fuel pressure at the primer bulb why are you trying to source new injectors ???ratbark wrote:Morning folks.
A quick update regarding my van. It's been put back together and obviously runs rough. However, what the garage have discovered is that if you squeeze the primer bulb whilst running, the rattle disappears! So it would appear it's low fuel pressure that's an issue. I bloody knew it wasn't an internal fault, it just didn't sit right with me.
So next step is to get it on lexia and go from there.
Can anybody tell me if these injectors are coded? And where's best to source them from? We've been quoted £260 each.
On a diesel engine the high pressure fuel pump controls the pressure and flow through the injectors, so if squeezing the primer bulb makes the engine run better momentarily either the lift pump in the fuel tank is faulty (if it has one - I'm not sure if that engine uses a lift pump) or the fuel filter is blocked, or the high pressure pump has a fault.
If the problem was injectors, squeezing the primer bulb while it was running would not make a difference - the primer bulb will be carrying a maximum of 2-3 bars of pressure while the pressure after the high pressure pump into the injectors is hundreds of bars and is carefully regulated.
I'd start by checking and replacing the fuel filter (maybe some crud in the tank has found its way into the filter and blocked it in a relatively short time) and if it has a lift pump in the tank that would be the next most likely culprit, followed by the high pressure pump. (But I think fuel filter or lift pump are much more likely)
Getting it on a Lexia would be very helpful too of course and may point in the right direction, but unless you already have easy access to a Lexia I'd just spend a few quid and change the fuel filter first.
Simon
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Morning Simon.
Many thanks for your reply. I completely agree with you.
The garage removed the injectors and had them tested, and apparently all 4 are faulty, hence my question about those. It's a "forewarned is forearmed" kinda thing.
The trick with the primer bulb only came to light on Thursday, and the fuel filter was the 1st thing to spring to my mind, but as my phone went missing whilst onsite, the van became a little less of a priority for a while. Pleased to say someone found my phone in the road and contacted my wife, so now that I've got it back I can concentrate on the van again.
I'll get the filter changed and go from there.
Many thanks again, very much appreciated.
Regards, Mark
Many thanks for your reply. I completely agree with you.
The garage removed the injectors and had them tested, and apparently all 4 are faulty, hence my question about those. It's a "forewarned is forearmed" kinda thing.
The trick with the primer bulb only came to light on Thursday, and the fuel filter was the 1st thing to spring to my mind, but as my phone went missing whilst onsite, the van became a little less of a priority for a while. Pleased to say someone found my phone in the road and contacted my wife, so now that I've got it back I can concentrate on the van again.
I'll get the filter changed and go from there.
Many thanks again, very much appreciated.
Regards, Mark
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
£260 each for injectors seems a very high price.
I was looking for some and they were around half that price.
In the end I had them cleaned and one of them refurbished for about £180. No more problems with them since.
Someone at the Wetherby rally that year (was years ago now) offered to source some new ones for far less than the retail price but I didn't follow up on that and unfortunately can't remember who it was, possibly KennyW. The going price on eBay then was about £160 each.
But as Simon says, the filter and HP pump come first. As there is a hand pump there will be no lift pump in the tank but there may well be a filter there, possibly just a strainer, but a lot of crud can accumulate there especially a biological mass caused by bacteria that feed on the diesel.
This is generally worse when tanks are only partially filled and there is a lot of moist air in there that promotes the growth of said bacteria.
There are photos on the net of it and it isn't pretty or healthy for the fuel system.
Diesel bug
I was looking for some and they were around half that price.
In the end I had them cleaned and one of them refurbished for about £180. No more problems with them since.
Someone at the Wetherby rally that year (was years ago now) offered to source some new ones for far less than the retail price but I didn't follow up on that and unfortunately can't remember who it was, possibly KennyW. The going price on eBay then was about £160 each.
But as Simon says, the filter and HP pump come first. As there is a hand pump there will be no lift pump in the tank but there may well be a filter there, possibly just a strainer, but a lot of crud can accumulate there especially a biological mass caused by bacteria that feed on the diesel.
This is generally worse when tanks are only partially filled and there is a lot of moist air in there that promotes the growth of said bacteria.
There are photos on the net of it and it isn't pretty or healthy for the fuel system.
Diesel bug
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought £260 a piece was a little on the high side!
I've seen diesel big before as we have a couple of diggers and dumpers that we run on red diesel, and they're terrible for it. It's rare for my van not to be filled up to full, usually twice a week (mobile service engineer) but, it tends to be fuel from Tesco's or Morrison's as I use a fuel card. I've stopped using supermarket fuel in our car recently and the difference is definitely noticeable.
Once I've changed the fuel filter I'll have a better idea.
Cheers for the top tips chaps, will keep you posted.
Mark
I've seen diesel big before as we have a couple of diggers and dumpers that we run on red diesel, and they're terrible for it. It's rare for my van not to be filled up to full, usually twice a week (mobile service engineer) but, it tends to be fuel from Tesco's or Morrison's as I use a fuel card. I've stopped using supermarket fuel in our car recently and the difference is definitely noticeable.
Once I've changed the fuel filter I'll have a better idea.
Cheers for the top tips chaps, will keep you posted.
Mark
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Evening all.
Brought the van back from the garage and started digging to find out what the score is.
Discovered that the drive for the high pressure pump on the end of the exhaust camshaft is mildly buggered!
Had replaced the fuel filter before this, and really struggled to bleed the air out but eventually got it to run. Will occasionally go over 3000rpm but it's a struggle.
The H.P. pump seems to be ok but it will probably pay to get it tested, along with the pressure regulator.
The pump drive is a bit of a strange set up, seems to me to be a bit of a weak point. Anyone else had the same problem?
Mark
Brought the van back from the garage and started digging to find out what the score is.
Discovered that the drive for the high pressure pump on the end of the exhaust camshaft is mildly buggered!
Had replaced the fuel filter before this, and really struggled to bleed the air out but eventually got it to run. Will occasionally go over 3000rpm but it's a struggle.
The H.P. pump seems to be ok but it will probably pay to get it tested, along with the pressure regulator.
The pump drive is a bit of a strange set up, seems to me to be a bit of a weak point. Anyone else had the same problem?
Mark
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Hi Mark,
From my own similar issues my garage said when they pressurized my fuel line the engine managed to run (don't know how they did it tho') so my initial non start was fixed when they did a HP pump overhaul, (maybe if it has an initial low pressure intake, squeezing the bulb would show it as failing) apparently it disintegrates spitting bits of metal into the fuel and injectors, weirdly though diagbox wasn't showing too much low pressure at the pump, i was just getting lumpy idle and the occasional power loss until it eventually stalled. but the pump overhaul guys said they were surprised the pump was running for so long as it was wrecked inside. Only thing that's strange with you is the 3000rpm limit, i'm sure i read on here, that can be caused by turbo on its way out? Otherwise sounds like your HP pump and FPR solenoid could be the culprits, Cost me about £600 to get done.
I got my injectors swapped for re-conditioned (new nozzle/new solenoids) at http://www.ribblevalleydiesels.co.uk/ £125ea +VAT i think it would have been £180+VAT for new... But as my dispatch still sounds like a bag of spanners, i don't know if they are any good yet.
edit* to add:
Al
From my own similar issues my garage said when they pressurized my fuel line the engine managed to run (don't know how they did it tho') so my initial non start was fixed when they did a HP pump overhaul, (maybe if it has an initial low pressure intake, squeezing the bulb would show it as failing) apparently it disintegrates spitting bits of metal into the fuel and injectors, weirdly though diagbox wasn't showing too much low pressure at the pump, i was just getting lumpy idle and the occasional power loss until it eventually stalled. but the pump overhaul guys said they were surprised the pump was running for so long as it was wrecked inside. Only thing that's strange with you is the 3000rpm limit, i'm sure i read on here, that can be caused by turbo on its way out? Otherwise sounds like your HP pump and FPR solenoid could be the culprits, Cost me about £600 to get done.
I got my injectors swapped for re-conditioned (new nozzle/new solenoids) at http://www.ribblevalleydiesels.co.uk/ £125ea +VAT i think it would have been £180+VAT for new... But as my dispatch still sounds like a bag of spanners, i don't know if they are any good yet.
edit* to add:
Apparently my cam pump was the same. It's a slotted female cup on the end of the cam and the male slot on the pump shaft, but the lips on the cup were sheared off apparently, although still enough engagement to be ok. Maybe it's a sign of pump bearings etc going and putting too much torque on the cam shaft cup interface?Discovered that the drive for the high pressure pump on the end of the exhaust camshaft is mildly buggered!
Al
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Afternoon all.
Well, my van is fixed!!
The issues were high pressure pump drive on exhaust camshaft, as previously mentioned, and the high pressure pump. Both have been replaced, as has the cambelt and cam chain tensioner. There was also a possible issue with the primer bulb but not sure if that got replaced in the end.
It would appear that the injectors are fine, even though they were slated in the early days.
I'm swapping back to my van this evening as I've got a breakdown to attend, so will see how it performs.
Many thanks for all your input, it's been extremely useful, and appreciated.
If anyone wants more info then just ask.
Mark.
Well, my van is fixed!!
The issues were high pressure pump drive on exhaust camshaft, as previously mentioned, and the high pressure pump. Both have been replaced, as has the cambelt and cam chain tensioner. There was also a possible issue with the primer bulb but not sure if that got replaced in the end.
It would appear that the injectors are fine, even though they were slated in the early days.
I'm swapping back to my van this evening as I've got a breakdown to attend, so will see how it performs.
Many thanks for all your input, it's been extremely useful, and appreciated.
If anyone wants more info then just ask.
Mark.
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Re: 2011 Dispatch 2.0Hdi power loss and rattle
Nice one Mark!
I think i have identical problems though! Mine is still at the garage, but they are replacing my camshaft and cam chain (that was my rattle noise) already replaced my HP pump, and re-conned injectors.
Hope your van runs well, if you have any probs i'd guess injector nozzles could have metal swarf stuck in them and need a clean, but fingers crossed!
Al
I think i have identical problems though! Mine is still at the garage, but they are replacing my camshaft and cam chain (that was my rattle noise) already replaced my HP pump, and re-conned injectors.
Hope your van runs well, if you have any probs i'd guess injector nozzles could have metal swarf stuck in them and need a clean, but fingers crossed!
Al