XM of Many Woes (Mainly suspension, no wait, RUST)

[VSX-Turbo]

Hi guys

For a quick overview of my XM see my post in the Introductions forum. I've posted about these issues elsewhere already but I thought it would be worthwhile allowing some fresh eyes to cast over them to see if any new diagnoses or solutions are raised and if anyone has comments regarding current diagnoses. For reference I have only driven the car once; from the sellers home to a pre-booked MOT 75 miles away. The car failed it's last MOT in 2015 for the following reasons:

Nearside rear fluid suspension has no suspension movement (2.4.d.5)
Offside rear fluid suspension has no suspension movement (2.4.d.5)
Front fluid suspension levelling valve leaking (2.4.d.2)
Brakes imbalanced across an axle (3.7.b.5b)

1) The Steering is heavy around centre, notchy the rest of the way around and latterly in the journey a click became audible from just behind the dash at about 30 degrees either side of centre. After the car had sat for three days I went back to it and found that while the car was stationery they steering seemed to have lightened up a touch.

Current diagnosis: It has been suggested that low LHM fluid level may cause issues in the steering but when I tried to check this I found that the indicator was stuck at the top of it's travel. I took a photograph in through the top-up whole in the hope that someone might be able to tell visually. Someone else suggested that the u-joints may be seizing. On another forum someone recently remarked that the white filter visible below should be attached to the top of the lid and that the fluid looks quite dirty.




2) The suspension does not appear to be in best health. As you can see above there were three failures relating to the suspension system. One the way back the car felt just as supple as I was expecting although for a few minutes on a couple of occasions it felt like the right rear had locked up. It felt as though the whole corner of the car was following the radius of bumps rather than dampening them. Again after three days of the car sitting I tried a little bit of Citrobatics and found that the rear was a bit hesitant to fall, starting and stopping with the odd creak. The previous owner of the car told me that one of the rear pipes was replaced and that the suspension once again "worked". I think he mentioned that the rear end wouldn't rise or fall at all on the manual height lever. That same lever can not be put into the lowest setting.

Current diagnosis: One member of another forum suggested that perhaps the leak from the levelling valve may have been a misdiagnosis and that in fact the pipe that was replaced may have been to blame for the leak. It has been suggested that some more Citrobatics may be in order just to free things up. With regards to the lever I'm told the track the rod runs on can become clogged up but I'm not happy with this diagnosis as the lever just seems to hit a wall at the standard driving height.

3) The brake pressure seems to be inconstant/brakes imbalances across an axle. When I pressed the brakes I would have to gently ease pressure on the pedal in order to maintain steady pressure on the discs. I didn't notice the car trying to pull to one side or another under braking.

Current diagnosis: It has been suggested that there may be an issue with the parking brake causing the imbalance and apparently it is not uncommon for the brake system on XM's to need bled.

4) There is a small coolant leak from the lower radiator when the engine is warm. I'm basically trying to find out a part number here as obviously it will need replaced. Does anyone know the best mothod to go about replacing this part as the leak is under the drivers side engine mount and access looks to be very poor from both the top and the bottom of the engine bay.

IT appears that someone has put some kind of blocking agent into the cooling system hopefully as a result of the pipe leak. The last time I bought a car with this sandy grit in the coolant the headgasket failed some time later. Is there any particular procedure I should follow to thoroughly wash all of this crud out?


5) The engine isn't running very nicely now. It seemed to run just fine on the drive home but after sitting for three days it's a bit stuttery.

That's it for the most important issues, obviously these are the top priorities and everything else can come later but I'll list them anyway.

6) The O/S mirror does not adjust left or right
7) The blower motor is intermittent or not working.
8) The Fresh air/recirculate lever is firmly stuck in the recirculate position.
9) O/S/F window does not work at all
10) N/S/F window is intermittent
11) Parking brake pedal comes up too high- I have to lift my knee right up to the steering wheel to get my foot on the pedal.
12) O/S/R door lock may be intermittent
13) Drivers seat adjustment switch intermittent in the forwards direction.
14) Sunroof retracts slowly - Probably needs lubed
15) Gear change is vague - Probably worn linkages, I'm assuming there are rubber parts in it.
16) Condensation inside headlights sometimes.
17) Left hand digital screen not working correctly
18) Exterior trim above windscreen is lifting away
19) O/S front bumper mount broken

I'll leave it at that for now. Any input would be very helpful as I'm a little in over my head on this one. Should have started with 1 litre AX...

[xantia_v6]

The suspension movement (for MOT purposes) should be checked with the engine running so that there is sufficient pressure to keep the hydractive valve open. With the valve closed, the suspension will seem very stiff, particularly if the corner spheres are low on pressure. Have you checked the suspension movement yourself?

[Stickyfinger]

THAT is exactly why I HATE the stuff with a vengeance !

[VSX-Turbo]

The suspension movement (for MOT purposes) should be checked with the engine running so that there is sufficient pressure to keep the hydractive valve open. With the valve closed, the suspension will seem very stiff, particularly if the corner spheres are low on pressure. Have you checked the suspension movement yourself?

Yes I did check it. I had the car raised, I lowered it back to normal then went around the car and every corner was stiff for some reason. I'll check it again next time I am with the car.

[citroenxm]

Parking brake pedals IS MEANT TO come up quite high on ALL xm.. Far higher then the other two or three pedals... Its just the design so that it is not mistaken for the clutch pedal in an emergency..

As said on the xm forum it sounds highly liekly you do need two rear spheres on the back end..

Uj joints on the steering are a common siezure... The xantia suffers badly. They can loosen up but not always. Best find a nice free second hand one and swap it over. Its not a rack out or off job but is a colum off job..

Floats can give false readings.. The level is best checked on top setting.. You can then test the level sensor.. Remove the two wires to the sensor and twist the connectors.. You can then lift up the sensor and see the level discs fall. If they do then its clear theres is too mich lhm in the tank.. A common thing as the level looks so low in a tank owners put far too much in. The proper way to check the fluid is to remove some from the tank.. I use a syringe..

[white exec]

Matt,

I'll continue to offer info and help on the XM forum - I'd better not duplicate posts here, or run a parallel thread here as well, otherwise it will get confusing for everyone!

Chris

[Peter.N.]

Firstly the suspension, if there really is no movement on the suspension there is little else it can be than failed spheres.

7. Blower motor. Check the connection of the 2 pin power plug on the blower, they can burn out as can also the 30a fuse holder in the under bonnet fuse box.

9&10 Usual cause of intermittent window operation is the door switches, try squirting some WD40 into them and giving them a good workout.

11 Parking brake pedals do come up high as already mentioned, you can slacken the cable adjustment to make it lower but then there is every possibility that the cables will come unhooked and you will lose the brake altogether.

17. Left digital screens very rarely do work correctly.

Peter

[citroenxm]

But lh displays arent hard to fix now.. There is a guide or two over on club xm forum...

[Mandrake]

As said on the xm forum it sounds highly liekly you do need two rear spheres on the back end..

Three spheres, as it's a VSX which should be Hydractive 2...

[Mandrake]

The suspension movement (for MOT purposes) should be checked with the engine running so that there is sufficient pressure to keep the hydractive valve open. With the valve closed, the suspension will seem very stiff, particularly if the corner spheres are low on pressure. Have you checked the suspension movement yourself?

Yes I did check it. I had the car raised, I lowered it back to normal then went around the car and every corner was stiff for some reason. I'll check it again next time I am with the car.

So it was stiff on every corner when the engine was running ? Stiff as in completely solid or just stiff like a sports car but still with some movement?

At the very least you are going to need to replace the spheres. I've never bought a second hand Citroen where at least some of the spheres weren't shot or close to it - it's a consumable item that gets neglected or completely overlooked by many owners, once the suspension gets too hard they get rid of the car when a new set of spheres would probably restore like-new ride.

There are two types of spheres - one are so called "multi-layer" long life types, these have three dimples in the sphere near the top where the filler blanking plug is on the end of the sphere. These can last up to about 10-12 years without significant loss of ride quality, but when they do finally fail they lose their pressure quickly. They were only ever used in the front suspension on Xantia/XM never at the rear, and some cars were not fitted with them at all. In the UK they don't seem to be as commonly fitted as in warmer countries.

Standard spheres that do not have these three dimples have a useful working life of about 3-4 years before the ride becomes unacceptable and maybe 6-7 years before the sphere diaphragm punctures internally and the suspension on that corner goes completely rigid. (and unsafe to drive) To keep the car riding well you would allow for replacing all the spheres approximately every 3 years, and as a matter of course I would replace all spheres on a newly acquired car especially if there were signs of neglect elsewhere in the maintenance. Chances that the spheres are in good condition are very slim unless bought from an enthusiast who kept on top of the maintenance.

It's also possible you need to do the "diode modification" to the car. In a Hydractive 2 cars there are 3 spheres per axle - two on the struts that provide most of the suspension movement but have very heavy damping to provide good handling and cornering when driving hard, and a third which is shared by both wheels on an axle that provides most of the "softness" when cruising. There is a small electrovalve for each axle which switches this additional sphere in and out of circuit by a computer as demanded by driving conditions. Inside the electrovalve is a diode that commonly fails and causes the electrovalve not to function.

This results in this middle "comfort" sphere being left out of circuit all the time, so you are stuck in a hard sports car like mode all the time. This is commonly repaired by fitting external diodes to the two electrovalves - usually back inside the engine ECU box where the Suspension ECU box also lives. If you can solder it's a fairly easy job or there are kits available which you can just connect by crimping onto the correct wires.

If this 3rd additional sphere on each axle has failed (internally punctured after running out of gas) then the effect on the ride is exactly the same - therefore when diagnosing a problem like this you need to be sure that the sphere is OK. So replace the spheres first, see how the ride is, then you may need to take the additional step of doing the diode modification. (I would just do it anyway - at the age these cars are at now, nearly all electrovalves will have failed diodes)

Having a forum member that is familiar with the XM or Xantia see your car might be beneficial - if you haven't owned an XM before you may not know what the ride should feel like and what the suspension should feel like when you try to bounce the corners down.

3) The brake pressure seems to be inconstant/brakes imbalances across an axle. When I pressed the brakes I would have to gently ease pressure on the pedal in order to maintain steady pressure on the discs. I didn't notice the car trying to pull to one side or another under braking.

Inconsistent braking pressure and difficulty controlling the exact braking effort can be caused by the accumulator sphere being flat. This is a green sphere on the pressure regulator in the engine bay. I'm not actually sure where this is on an XM (I have a Xantia) but if you hear a frequent click from the engine bay when the engine is idling it probably needs replacing. If you are replacing all the spheres this is one that will be done in the process of that, and it is fairly important for the safety of the car as it provides emergency braking supply for the front brakes in case your axillary belt breaks on the engine.

If there is an imbalance across the axle then there will be a mechanical problem as well that needs sorting - but it won't be anything different from the kinds of problems you'd find on any other cars brake systems... check the conditions of the pads and discs, check the calliper slides and lubricate them if possible, check the handbrake cables are not stiff or seized (they probably need replacing) etc...

5) The engine isn't running very nicely now. It seemed to run just fine on the drive home but after sitting for three days it's a bit stuttery.

Can you describe this a bit more ? Is it misfiring when idling ? Is it hesitant when initially accelerating ? Does it seem to be low on power ? etc...

By the way, the fluid level in the hydraulic tank must be checked with the suspension fully raised. So set the height lever to maximum height and let the engine idle for at least 3-4 minutes and ensure the suspension is fully up before checking the level - the orange disc should then be between the two lines. When the suspension is fully up like this the tank will only be about 1/4 full. It's normal for the orange disc to be rammed up hard into the top of the tube when the suspension is at normal height as there is more oil in the tank then.

[CitroJim]

Matt,

I'll continue to offer info and help on the XM forum - I'd better not duplicate posts here, or run a parallel thread here as well, otherwise it will get confusing for everyone!

Chris

Do by all means run this as a full parallel as two sets of minds working on it is better than one!

[VSX-Turbo]

So it's MOT was done today and it's way worse than I thought it would be. The DVLA MOT check site shows MOT's going back to 2010 and none of them mention any rust. The Ebay seller said that the body was good all round too so naturally I'm not very happy. What's it worth at this point, and does anyone want it?

Reason(s) for failure

• offside front Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings inner wing (6.1.B.2)
• nearside front Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering floor support (6.1.A.1)
• offside front Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering floor support (6.1.A.1)
• nearside rear Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering outer sill at jacking point (6.1.A.1)
• offside rear Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion which adversely affects braking or steering outer sill jacking point (6.1.A.1)
• nearside Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings floor below seat mount (6.1.B.2)
• offside Vehicle structure has excessive corrosion, seriously affecting its strength within 30cm of the body mountings floor below seat mount (6.1.B.2)
• Steering system excessively tight (2.2.D.1)
• Steering system fouling (2.2.D.2a)
• Braking system leaking (3.6.A.1)
• Brake fluid warning lamp illuminated (3.6.G.2)

 

Advisory notice item(s)

• Steering column top bearing slightly worn (2.1.2c)
• nearside front Tyre worn close to the legal limit (4.1.E.1)
• front bumper support bracket has corosion
• oil leak
• emissions not done due to fluid leaking all over floor

[CitroJim]

Oh gosh... Not good.. A bit of work needed there...

Worth doing though

[VSX-Turbo]

Here's the rust that I've been able to photograph plus there is a couple of bits that I think are further towards the centre where the seats mount that I couldn't see. The first two are on the drivers side chassis leg, under the large plastic box. It's the nearside rear jacking points that will make me loose sleep tonight as the others look to be fairly easily repaired?



 



 

[CitroJim]

Best to have a chat with Paul (CitroenXM) on this... He's welded up no end of XMs and the sill repairs to him are his bread and butter... PM him if he doesn't respond here...

His welding abilities on the XM are the stuff of legend... He knows his stuff...