C5 S1 Nav system

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cachaciero
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C5 S1 Nav system

Post by cachaciero »

I have a problem with the colour display in that it has lost blue video.
I have investigated this in some depth and the problem is either the display itself or the display controller. To go further it would be nice to identify which of these two items it is Component substitution is not really a viable option the items concerned are like hens teeth and expensive when available on the second hand market, though if anybody knows of a Display controller (my first choice) I may be interested.
The schematics show me what connectors connect to what but they don't tell me what the pins on the connectors carry in terms of signal.
Does anybody out there have schematics / technical data on either the Colour screen VDO 22SY 453 or the Display Controller VDO 22SY451 or know where I might lay my hands on this info.
Would be interested to know of any other cars that used this set up, though I suspect that because the system uses VAN bus only Peugeot or maybe Renault would be likely candidates.


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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by GiveMeABreak »

AS you say these are now very rare to find second hand. It goes sound like a graphic card controller issue, but there are still companies exchanging or repairing these - Here's one that lists those part numbers:
http://www.eps-elektronik.com/citroen-c ... ystems.php
Not cheap, but in Euros - and is at least another option to consider. :-D
Also, found this other post on relevant to this unit in case you haven't seen it:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=26917
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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by KevMayer »

Red failed on my sat nav.
I tried a replacement screen but still no red. Found a cheap sat nave ecu on ebay and it is now working ok.

cheers
Cheers, Kev

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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by GiveMeABreak »

KevMayer wrote:Red failed on my sat nav.
I tried a replacement screen but still no red. Found a cheap sat nave ecu on ebay and it is now working ok.
cheers
Rarely the screen - it is almost always the graphics controller as this does all the processing. :)
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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by cachaciero »

GiveMeABreak wrote:AS you say these are now very rare to find second hand. It goes sound like a graphic card controller issue, but there are still companies exchanging or repairing these - Here's one that lists those part numbers:
http://www.eps-elektronik.com/citroen-c ... ystems.php
Not cheap, but in Euros - and is at least another option to consider. :-D
Also, found this other post on relevant to this unit in case you haven't seen it:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=26917
Yes thanks for the links, I had already come across eps-elektronic but 499 euros for an exchange unit on a car that is probably worth not much more than twice that doesn't seem like a good deal.
Kev Mayer referenced later cars with a later system, which I believe had a DVD unit and the graphic TMC stuff all in the same box which I believe are much easier to obtain, probably have a better NAV system to boot, now you know why I am desirous of being able to browse the schematics in SEDRE for a later car with a later system :-)

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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I had the RT3 Navidrive in my Mk 2 Exclusive. That was a lot more compact being all in the head unit. Mine did start to loose visible satellites and FM reception got drastically worse. I was considering a repair from the Magnetti Marelli authorised repairers via the clarion centre, but part exd it shortly afterwards. They wanted over £200 quid for a complete refurb so not cheap, but at least it was only a five minute job to get the unit out. At that time there were RT3!units about for £500-600 so was a viable alternative.

Not sure if one of these would be compatible though as I suspect the Mk1 had VAN wiring and the RT3 was fully CAN, but may need to double check that. There are still units out there, but you may need to change the display screen too as these were different IIRC.
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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Just had a check on the schematics for my old Mk 2 with RT3 Navidrive V3. This system is fully CAN, so probably won't work on a Mk1, as looking at the units for your system, they are a mixture of both Analogue and Comfort VAN since RPO 8631 and change again at 9618 to the Magneti Marelli system. Let me know if you want my old Mk 2 VIN & RPO for research!
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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by cachaciero »

GiveMeABreak wrote:Just had a check on the schematics for my old Mk 2 with RT3 Navidrive V3. This system is fully CAN, so probably won't work on a Mk1, as looking at the units for your system, they are a mixture of both Analogue and Comfort VAN since RPO 8631 and change again at 9618 to the Magneti Marelli system. Let me know if you want my old Mk 2 VIN & RPO for research!
Well as I said the SEDRE schematics are not in agreement with the the car RPO 9136, they only show two of the four connectors on the graphics controller being used, shows nothing for the Traffic Master Stuff and interconnection with the radio is a little vague!! One thing I do know at the mo with the graphics controller only connected on the Yellow Plug I can't get the Radio to switch on but I do get Traffic Master Audio, I get the display up less blue and I can set time and date etc. Now the Menu selection is analogue I assume that the Radio connects via a local serial link of some description, thinking about that I have the Radio Schematics RD2 /3 and yes it is Van.

Pretty sure that one of the connectors is Traffic master Antennae and the other could be VAN data.

Actually at a hardware wiring level CAN / VAN are two wire buses so are identical, so I guess units like Radio's Nav systems could be programmed to use either protocol assuming a degree of internal hardware compatibility.

Like I said would be nice to have the connector pin outs for the Yellow connector and the schematics for the Graphics controller would allow more comprehensive checking and easier checking as regards possible mods.

I know that VTR+ had a big screen display and I believe it was the same screen but I am pretty sure that they only came in at MK2 facelift and therefor would have been all CAN or would they?.
Something interesting about this VAN / CAN thing, the FAP additive ECU which connects to the BSI via VAN on my car (I believe as it's another blank area in SEDRE) I have a later additive ECU from a CAN car which when fitted seems to communicate just fine which is just yet another puzzle :-)

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C5 Mk1 roof antenna - poor radio/satellite reception

Post by aspire_helen »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 06 Apr 2016, 23:28 I had the RT3 Navidrive in my Mk 2 Exclusive. That was a lot more compact being all in the head unit. Mine did start to loose visible satellites and FM reception got drastically worse. .
For info for others. Regarding deteriorating satellite and radio reception. If both are deteriorating it is almost certain to be the antenna base on the roof. The head unit has no sat nav function. The base houses active (ie powered) electronic VHF/HF and sat nav receiving antenna (and phone antenna of originally fitted). They are prone to water ingress and corrosion, accounting for the progressive reduction in reception. They are easy to replace, accessed under the roof lining, but only those with the original sat nav will contain the satellite antenna. If reception is still good now, I recommend dismantling the base and reassembling with new sealant. I also use plenty of red rubber grease on the antenna screw threads to deter water ingress.
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Re: C5 Mk1 Colour screen datasheet

Post by aspire_helen »

A data sheet for the colour screen (MFD - Multi Function Display) is available online. Search for Philips LTE072T-050 LTE072T-051 Active matrix 7" colour TFT LCD module. It is not quite the same model, but close enough. It helped when i replaced the fading old-style CFT backlight with LED strips, as is common for with laptop and TV screens. Later, it helped when I replaced the backlight brightness control from the clumsy on-screen menu to a dedicated manual knob....so much easier to adjust the brightness.
I have yet to find any technical info on the 22SY451......has anyone??
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Re: C5 S1 Nav system

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I should add that in my case that you quoted above, it wasn't the antenna or aerial base or amplifier unit. These were all replaced by me, it was the actual Head Unit as diagnosed by Clarion UK, but was going to have it repaired at an extortionate fee, but bought my C5 X7 instead, so never proceeded.
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Re: C5 Mk1 MFD screen and 22SY451

Post by aspire_helen »

Just to record the availability of circuit info on the 22SY451. I asked Philips / VDO recently. They replied that there is no info available (online or from themselves) because the 22SY451 was supplied under a "business-to-business" contract with car manufacturers. On the other hand, their MFD screen was commercially available, eg as a common DVD screen in cars, and hence a data sheet is available online.
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