Prices too high ?

[onthecut]

Having been keeping a watching brief for an X7 or C6 that takes my fancy, I now cannot help but notice the staggering number of the same cars that appear on all the common selling forums week after week after week. The Ebay ones I take at least to be unsold as the adverts are renewed.

It's simple -- you're asking too much ! Noticeably, the odd really attractive options are gone within a day. Looking at C6, the common ad line is that it's a classic already. Is it, or is it just a big, ageing Citroen that very few people even know of that sold spectacularly badly for a reason ? Maybe the near £500 a year tax has a bearing ? (Something not mentioned usually, in the ads) Likewise, it does get boring looking at the endless ads for 'top spec' or 'fully loaded' X7 that are singularly devoid even of sat nav, far less proper suspension.

It is very noticeable looking at the BCA site that with the X7, mileage is one of the biggest factors; near or beyond 100k and the prices fall off a cliff, something generally not reflected in retail ads.

I suspect there is a degree of paralysis with some sellers, as they have a look around at guides and other ads and decide their car is 'worth' £x. No it's not ! It's worth what someone will give you on the day.

As a long time Citroenist I would venture to suggest the only genuine mainstream 'classic' models are the DS (and SM) and 2CV; after that it's very niche.

Mike.

[Stickyfinger]

They are not "worth" what someone will pay, they are worth what someone will sell for, it is their choice not yours.

The worth is theirs until you pay for it then the worth of it is yours

[Paul-R]

In order to exclude the coil sprung X7s I used "exclusive" as part of the search criteria.

Worked for me!

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes that's what I generally do, then specify the other bits of kit like 'xenon' or 'sat' or 'navi' in the additional search options - tends to filter out all the dross Paul, as you say.

[lexi]

I think people holding out for a price is an attempt to set a trend and maybe force prices high. It may or may not work. Many dealers have paid less than asking of course and will hold out for long periods. It's like a house, you only need that one buyer. We all have a house in the street that we would never have paid the money for.
With Vel Satis, the cars were generally low value. However many people were and still are, paying well over what knowledgeable enthusiasts would pay. I think X7 hydro may be similar. Keep searching, I say. That car will come up on the day, for different reasons. A realistic seller who needs money is always an opportunity for the patient buyer.

[vborovic]

@ onthecut - All prices are negotiable, it just depends on the seller choice to do so ... I can ask for my car 20000 GBP i.e. as it is now ... will I get that price, quite certainly no, but if I want/need to sell it, I'll have to lower the price one way or the other ... a number of sellers start with obviously higher price, hoping that a customer will pay that amount no questions asked .. but, if they do start negotiating the price drop, they'll still have a "safe margin" that allows for profit ...

Regarding the "classic" tag of the C6 ... I don't think it is classic (not yet at least, since it was stopped being produced only a few years ago) ... but the total car production is below 13.000, making them very rare and sought after ... and the other part of the equation, they're not that simple to maintain (mechanical bits, yes, but electrical - if you're an individual enthusiast, you really need to be equipped with all the required gadgetry to be able to keep it on the road - the Lexia/DiagBox being only a part of that equipment).

[Harlequin]

a car is only `sought after` is people actually want them - I see 607`s coming up for £500 or so now , and they are still not selling!

[DHallworth]

C6's do have quite a cult following. Again, mileage plays a bit part in it.

Over on the C6 forum you get some cars being advertised cheaply which sell quickly, other cars which are priced at around what people think they're worth take a bit longer.

Personally I'd rather pay top money for a good car that's been maintained properly rather then just buying one that the price is right on as the price of parts for the X7 and C6 aren't cheap if you're fitting genuine parts.

David.

[GiveMeABreak]

It's all relative - as VAB and Harlequin infer - if you want something badly enough and the right one comes along, you'll probably buy it or risk losing it. In the case of the C6 - as VAB says we know when production ceased and we know that due to the relatively low sales, they are going to be snapped up by enthusiasts, so that makes them quite rare, and that will push prices up as years go on. When I think of the CX Prestige long wheel base I had then, what I sold it for, and what it would be worth now looking at some auctions...

It's simple supply and demand, like anything else. But knowing / speculating that a car is going to become a rarity is the challenge. If the C5 X7 Exclusives are going to be the last Hydractive cars ever, then those in the know may well be snapping them up for posterity!

[rory_perrett]

Asking and getting are two different things. For owner sellers there's emotion involved, for business sellers there are economic/ business reasons.

An owner seller generally values their car higher than the buyer, look at the games that are played a trade in time. Years back I had a colleague who refused to accept £800 part ex for his car because "its worth more". He bought his new car from a garage "that recognized the true value" of his old car and gave him £1800 for it!!! I never could get him to under stand that it was the cost to change that was important. First garage wanted £4k + his old car, the garage he got his new car from wanted £4,300 + his old car. Same new car, same spec. I left before he changed again but I'm sure in his mind he'd want more trade in again because he'd paid £6,100 for the rather than £4,800 for the car in the first place.

If dealers are shifting enough inventory then if its something rare and they only have one of them then again they will hang on until the right buyer comes along especially if other dealers in the area don't have one. If someone comes on to your pitch looking at, say, a bog standard Ford Focus you want to do the deal. If they don't buy yours you know they can go down the road and buy a different one and you know that you'll be able to pick up another one for stock in a day or two and then probably sell that one quite quickly. Not with a C6 so you might as well stick out for a best price.

I also wonder if it is a bit of a British thing, we don't like to haggle and are too polite to low ball. If its something you want and there isn't another one down the road most people won't go in with a really low offer "in case it offends". But you can always go up, never down and some times it quite a shock to find out what they are really prepared to sell for.

But the C6 as a classic - even as a dyed in the wool Citroen fan I can't see it. DS and SM yes all day but the C6 no; sorry.

[Lenny]

I spent an intense couple of months trying to buy an X7.
I was on Autotrader / Motors / Pistonheads / Ebay / Gumtree etc. several times a day.
I was specifically after an Exclusive Tourer auto with less than 70000 miles without Satnav or xenons.

In my experience it's the auto box that makes all the difference. Any autos that came up for sale sold in no time at all.

I went to see an 09 with 52k that was by no means perfect and was up for £6950. The dealer selling wouldn't knock any more than £50 off so I went away telling him it was too expensive.
It was sold three days later.

I enquired about an 09 with 54k at £5795 down in Devon (I'm in Lincolnshire!) that a Mercedes dealer was due to take in p/ex. They took my details to ring me as soon as the car was in stock.
The car was sold before they took it in to somebody else who hadn't even seen it.

I went to Sheffield to see a 2010 at £5995 that was absolutely awful. A scratch or dent on every panel, a tatty interior and smelled like a dog kennel. This one hung about a bit but then went up to £6995 and sold a week later (presumably they'd spent a grand on paintwork and air freshers).

There were several others that were sold almost as soon as the advert was placed.

So in my experience it's not satnav, xenons or whatever that gets them shifting quick, it's auto not manual, Tourer not saloon, and sensible miles.

In the end I travelled to Somerset (over 500 miles round trip) to buy one privately from an absolute gentleman who I rang within an hour of his ad appearing on Autotrader and who refused to let anybody else see it until I had seen it (as I was the first to call).
It's a lovely thing and I will hang onto it for years (or until a perfect condition, white, 3.0hdi auto tourer with 40k, no satnav, no xenons, full leather and the panoramic roof comes on the market for less than six grand).

[Lenny]

If anybody fancies a manual then this one stacks up to me:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-C5-2- ... SwiylW~lWe

I've not been to see it but there's something apparently honest about it.
The mileage is right and it's always good to see a full set of Michelins.
It's been for sale for over a month now so I reckon there'll be some bargaining to be done over the couple of hundred pounds worth of paint it could do with.

[GiveMeABreak]

Well all down to what you want as an individual. I looked for nearly a year to find the one I wanted - with Xenons with NG4 Navidrive 3D, with full leather and a saloon with 6 speed manual (although I would of had an auto if that came up first). I also wanted an electric sunroof but couldn't pass on the opportunity to get this one. Each to their own I suppose, however these options are obviously sought after by many as can be seen by the number of posts here wanting to retrofit these as upgrades.

[vborovic]

Each to their own I suppose, however these options are obviously sought after by many as can be seen by the number of posts here wanting to retrofit these as upgrades.

I have no idea what you're talking about ...

[onthecut]

'They are not "worth" what someone will pay, they are worth what someone will sell for, it is their choice not yours.

The worth is theirs until you pay for it then the worth of it is yours

'

Surely were that the case, car price depreciation would all but cease as no one would voluntarily choose to lose on the sale price. Reality is that there is relentless downward pressure on virtually all car prices, fuelled by a huge market place and an endless stream of new product. Sure, depreciation rates will vary, with some specific models doing better than others, but overall it's still a one way picture for pretty much all mainstream cars.

I don't know whether anyone else saw it, but there was a dog of a C6 sitting at a local Birmingham auction recently for a few weeks. Wouldn't start (flat battery); sounded like a bag of spanners when it did; no instrument display; no confirmed mileage; unspectacular bodywork and I'm not even sure there was a V5 with it and still the vendor allegedly wanted over £3k for it. Unsurprisingly, it just sat there.

Think back to the XM days --- all the same arguments -- classic, etc. and look at the prices now. With the very odd exception for outstanding specimens they are down in the banger money, just like all other vehicles their age. (Fine cars, had many, but there's no bucking the market)