The Xantia strut lubrication debate

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Mandrake
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The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by Mandrake »

As well as air bubbles affecting ride...I've noticed an unusual problem with my Xantia V6 which I have not seen on my two prior Xantia's - and this is front suspension struts that seemingly need lubricating but are never satisfied when they are lubricated.

This is a pretty low mileage car - still only 75K, and when I have checked the strut shafts themselves they are absolutely immaculate and still have the original smooth shiny finish with no visible wear. This is in contrast to my first Xantia (much younger at the time, but higher mileage) where there were obvious signs of wear on the shafts (from the top bush in the strut) where the smooth finish was worn through the hardening to an abraded matt finish in some small patches.

The struts have been lubricated twice in the year and a half I've had the car with lithium grease and yet in at least the last 6 months I have noticed a very definite "fidgityness" to the ride at the front most of the time, where it feels that for small movements the front suspension is basically seized and not moving freely unless I hit a larger bump. (I also notice the roll angle of the car keeps changing over small twists in the road surface - constantly tilting slightly left and right)

Also, if I raise the suspension fully it does the classic (?) creaking lurching movement for a good part of the way, mostly on the right hand side I think, but it's hard to tell. If I then lower it and raise it again it is perfectly smooth the second time and the fidgety ride disappears for a while - a while being a few hours to a day.

A week or two ago I got tired of this and decided to lube the struts again - I have always used a mineral grease before but this time I thought I would try some oil - not LHM as it's far too thin to be a good lubricant, but some left over brand new engine oil - which is significantly thicker than LHM. Again, the struts looked in immaculate condition when I checked them, I gave them three applications of oil to the shaft lowering and raising the suspension in between each application, and afterwards the suspension was moving perfectly smoothly and seemed good going for a quick test drive with no fidgeting apparent. (Bliss!)

Then two days later when raising the suspension fully it was back to it's creaky, groaning jerky movement as if it had never been lubricated. Just as bad as before! :evil: Again, mostly on the right hand side.

I can't believe those pristine looking struts are "dry" again in two days regardless of oil vs grease so it has got me seriously wondering whether I am barking up the wrong tree ? Is it possible that sticky struts is not the cause of the stiffness and creaking at all, but that I have something like a seizing ball joint ???! :shock:

Could a seizing ball joint (through lack of lubrication and/or rust in the joint) seize enough to cause the front suspension movement to become sticky and not move freely ? Such that when you forcibly move it by fully raising and lowering the suspension it "breaks free" for a while, then seizes up again when the car is left to sit for a day ?

Has anyone experienced perpetually "sticky struts" that resisted lubrication attempts that went away only when they replaced some of the ball joints ? The obvious culprit is the lower balljoint (oh dear....) but I guess potentially the droplink joint could also contribute ? How about track rod end ?

Come summer I intend to replace the drop links and track rod ends, however I have already made an aborted attempt at changing the lower ball joint so that one will not come willingly.

People might remember about a year ago I also had the problem where I accidentally drove through flooding at high speed in the dark which caused the steering and suspension to both start "creaking" under steering and suspension movement, that problem did eventually go away (but took months to fully disappear!) so I wonder if some water got into a ball joint somehow and that I now have some seizing joints thanks to that water episode.

Anyone have any suggestions ? This creaky front suspension and fidgety ride that I can't get rid of is really starting to annoy me...I know that the car can ride so much better (and has done so in the past) than it is at the moment.
Simon

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1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
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1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
RichardW
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by RichardW »

I'm pretty sure mine rode a lot better when the (very) noisy drop link finally broke off, so that could be the cause of the stiction.
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Mandrake
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote:I'm pretty sure mine rode a lot better when the (very) noisy drop link finally broke off, so that could be the cause of the stiction.
Thank you Richard, stiction is the word (?) I was trying to think of. :-D

Do you mean it rode better immediately after the old one broke, or was there still an improvement after fitting a replacement ?
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
BenC5HDi
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by BenC5HDi »

I know my Berlingo has steel springs, so it may not be relevant, but I replaced both drop links a fortnight or so ago and the improvement in ride quality and lack of noise was quite amazing.

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CitroJim
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by CitroJim »

I lubricate mine with a bit of light machine oil every now and again. Some people use LHM but it's lubrication and staying properties are both quite low. Light machine oil like 3 in 1 is much better...
Jim

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chinkostu
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by chinkostu »

RichardW wrote:I'm pretty sure mine rode a lot better when the (very) noisy drop link finally broke off, so that could be the cause of the stiction.
mine was rotten with the knackered droplinks, immediately better when replaced but i put that down to the citroebics when jacking it. its funny you say though as its seemed a touch more compliant.
Stu

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white exec
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by white exec »

On XM, slightly creaky and sticky front struts freed up completely after running the system on Hydraurincage for 3000km*. Done at 90,000 miles. The clean-out and fresh LHM has left the car rising and falling smoothly.
*max recommended is 5000km.
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by lexi »

Get those rods and ball joints done and stop procrastinating :lol:
Apart from compatibility issues which you would need to check, there are many things you could try lubing with. Red rubber grease. Moly grease. Anti- scuff paste ( apply and burnish off). Dex 11 is used as a light machine oil substitute in air tools. There are also fully synthetic oils and the silicone brake fluid.
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CitroJim
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by CitroJim »

Interesting use of DEX II Lexi :D
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white exec
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by white exec »

lexi wrote: . . . and the silicone brake fluid.
Do not use silicone brake fluid. Although non-hygroscopic and very stable, its lubricating properties are extremely poor. Can cause creaking in otherwise healthy brake and brake-servo systems.
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by lexi »

white exec wrote:
lexi wrote: . . . and the silicone brake fluid.
Do not use silicone brake fluid. Although non-hygroscopic and very stable, its lubricating properties are extremely poor. Can cause creaking in otherwise healthy brake and brake-servo systems.


Ah well, that is that one checked 8-) I know that some silicone grease is a no no on metal.
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Zelandeth
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Mine were quite creaky when I got the Xantia. Never had any issues since lubing them every six months or so at service time. I just use whatever engine oil that comes to hand first, ideally the thicker the better though I imagine.
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aneesh84
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by aneesh84 »

does lithium grease attack the bush on the xantia strut?

wanted to make sure before applying since i have it on hand
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Mandrake
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Re: The Xantia strut lubrication debate

Unread post by Mandrake »

aneesh84 wrote: 20 Aug 2021, 11:47 does lithium grease attack the bush on the xantia strut?

wanted to make sure before applying since i have it on hand
Are you referring to the limit stop snubber bush which is slid over the shaft and normally rests in the bottom of the strut top ?

It should be OK with mineral based Lithium grease given that LHM is a mineral based oil...
Simon

2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1978 CX 2400
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD