Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

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Old-Guy
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Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Old-Guy »

The dreaded clutch clip has failed again, so it's release arm nylon bush failure (isn't it?). I'm getting too old to struggle with heavy transmissions so the job is being delegated to a local indie who have a Peugeot-Citroen specialist. It's going to be very expensive in labour (for someone who hasn't paid a garage bill for 20 years!) so it seems sensible to fit a new clutch at the same time (release bearing too?).

The Green Lady has done 126,000 with a lot of town use, so it's not unexpected.

The indie's parts bloke and I agree that a 'genuine' Citroen part is way too expensive, he says there's only a few quid amongst the alternatives available locally so it's a matter of me stipulating any brands/suppliers to be avoided - rather spend a tenner more and be happy that the clutch should outlast the car.

Comments please.
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by RichardW »

Valeo is the OE clutch, so I would go with that as first choice. Otherwise Sachs or LUK if they make one (this is the pull clutch with attached bearing). Avoid anything remanufactured - especially if it's done by Transmech. It's quite possibly the clutch itself is heavy but changing the bushes and input guide tube while you (they!) are there is worth while. This genuine one on the bay is £120 delivered - less than half the Cit price of £260.
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Xantia97 »

I put a Valeo in Snoopy (1997 1.9TD LX) last year and the cheapest place for me was Amazon - make sure it's sold by Amazon and not a third party. I checked the part on the Valeo website and phoned them up to make sure, they were very, very helpful. I discovered that a lot of the discount places are selling the older version of the valeo Xantia clutch, this was pointed out by Valeo. The item below was the latest model for Snoopy last year.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/VALEO-SERVICE-8 ... -0&sr=1-13

Never had a problem returning things to Amazon and you can get next day delivery (for extra cost).
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Old-Guy »

Pricewise, I've been having a look on-line: for a Valeo, Amazon is slightly more expensive than GSF who also offer a 'Westlake' alternative at 2/3rds the price. "Westlake Europe BVBA, is a wholly owned subsidiary company of the China based Zhejiang Tieliu Clutch Co., Ltd." enough said, though I've no idea where Valeo ones are actually made. There are various other .uk sites whose poor English makes me wary but nobody else I'd trust.

I believe it's conventional wisdom that the release-fork bearings should be changed at the same time - Citroen only parts?

service.citroen lists two kits: A = friction plate + cover assy (integral release bearing) + guide tube; B = release fork + actuating arm + pin and spring; but the two bearings are listed separately. To me that suggests that it's more usual to have to replace the release fork (and the pin and arm because they have to be cut off?) than the bearings? Anyone enlighten me from practical experience please?
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Old-Guy »

Apart from Amazon being slightly more expensive, if a seller won't supply a part for a specific vehicle, they are far too much hassle to deal with. OK, so Amazon state "If you are not sure this part is correct please message us with Full registration..." but I've just wasted half-an-hour trying to work out How?. Conclusion, Amazon don't want you to so they can....

Still looking, I've also noticed on kits (including Valeo) on some sites that don't seem to include the guide tube But then some list (for a 01/96 car), clutch kits for "1.9TD 01/98 - 08/2000"!

The guide tube is an arrangement that I've never seen in the metal, and the service.citroen drawing doesn't help so I don't understand how it works or why it should be replaced?
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by RichardW »

The guide tube performs 2 functions (sort of!). It sits over the input shaft, and the centre of the release bearing slides along it. As the centre of the release bearing is serrated, this can wear grooves in the guide tube. It can also rust, causing stiction in the clutch mechanism. It also holds the input shaft seal, so this is perhaps the main reason for replacing it - you get to replace the seal.
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Xantia97 »

Oh that's not fair to Amazon! If you click on the item (clutch) there is an option at the top of the page to specify the car you want the part for to make sure it fits. I did this and checked on Valeo's site and phoned them, Amazon had identified the correct part, and have done so for other parts. I wouldn't buy a part from a third-party seller on Amazon though.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/VALEO-SERVICE-8 ... kit+801416

https://www.valeoservice.co.uk/en/Refer ... ame=Clutch kit

And I'm only a mere female!!!
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

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AX - bad mistake!
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Old-Guy »

Richard - thank you, now I understand and can visualise. Since the problem is the release mechanism jamming (and thus causing the 'clip' (plastic link) to break), I obviously need to have the tube as well as the fork bushes replaced. Could you cast similar light please on whether the 'clutch fork lever' might need replacing?

Juliet, thank you for being helpful. I'm not being unfair to Amazon - I did specify the vehicle as far as Amazon permit but this isn't always sufficient to ensure the correct parts. Amazon/Valeo attempt to avoid their legal responsibilities with the weasel words I quoted. I know there was a design change at some point, but I have the correct part numbers for my VIN from citroen.service, but Amazon/Valeo give no cross-references nor a link to contact them. I simply cannot have the car sitting in pieces in the garage's workshop for several days because I provided the wrong parts - which is why the garage want to deal with local factors who will swap wrong parts the same day (or even provide a choice on sale or return if they are not sure). I want to make sure they use parts that are correct and of good quality, and also change everything that might be causing the mechanism to stick.
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1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Harlequin »

replace the guide tube - I didn't and it cost me to pull my clutch apart twice :(
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Xantia97 »

https://www.valeoservice.co.uk/en/contact/car-owner
I'm pretty sure this is the number I rang and asked for technical advice. They took my vin number and told me the correct part (most up to date) for the car. It does appear that their website has changed since last summer though.

The local Peugeot garage here tried to put a third-party clutch cable on Snoopy and after two days gave up, I had to get an OE cable form the UK (expensive exercise) and that went on like a dream, the garage couldn't get one here in France for a RHD. Hence my distrust of non OE parts, car was off the road for a week.
Juliet
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AX - bad mistake!
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by RichardW »

Old-Guy wrote: Could you cast similar light please on whether the 'clutch fork lever' might need replacing?
It shouldn't as there is no chance of arm / clutch finger contact as there is on a push clutch. However, if the pin / lever won't come off the arm, and it has to be cut off, then it will need to be replaced. You can check that the pin will come out, and the lever is free, from the top before it goes to the garage so you will know it is OK.
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Old-Guy »

Juliet - I can understand the problem with a clutch cable. I changed mine last summer when the clutch clip first failed. The non-OE one was slightly longer (apparently designed to fit any RHD car with the BE3 'box) and a bit of fiddling required. There's no way a much shorter (about 1/2 the length if that) LHD cable could be made to fit.

Richard - Thanks again. Right, I will have tube and bushes changed. I can see now why Citroen offer kit B - more economical to cut off head of fork shaft than spend time fighting a pin that won't move. Good idea, I'll give the pin a good dose of PlusGas in the morning and then try knocking it out in a couple of days.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Xantia97 »

Old-Guy wrote: There's no way a much shorter (about 1/2 the length if that) LHD cable could be made to fit.
The third-party cable was for a RHD (also supplied by me and checked against the Citroen part number from Service Citroen) but the mechanic couldn't get it to self-adjust and it wouldn't fit in the supports on the bodywork. The OE one worked first time and obviously fitted perfectly. So where possible I will only put OE parts on Snoopy now :-D

I also had the gear oil changed. Here's the thread about it and all the parts I was advised to change listed (about page 3-4 as I recall).

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=52449

Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Old-Guy »

Well the job's been done - properly. New Valeo clutch; guide tube; release-fork bushes, pin and spring. Clutch a lot lighter and like silk - should be good for another 125,000 miles or 20 years. Garage couldn't understand why I wanted to spend £600 on a twenty year-old car with 210,000 on the clock (according to their records) - obviously somebody didn't believe 120,000 was right and swapped the first two digits.

Picked her up on Friday; a nice day for a change, so I walked the 2½ miles to pick her up. Not as fit as I used to be, a bit puffed when I got there (and it's gently down-hill). Thought nothing of it - but Sunday morning I had a minor heart-attack. So we have the Green Lady back, but I'm not allowed to drive for a couple of weeks nor allowed to do anything energetic (like fitting the re-furbished tail-gate) for months - ain't life a bugger! Never mind, lots of people are a lot worse off - I'm still standing - and walking albeit rather slower than normal.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
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Re: Xantia Clutch - what to avoid?

Post by Xantia97 »

So sorry to hear about your heart attack, what a bummer! At least you weren't doing the clutch yourself when it happened, that would have been nasty at the wrong moment!
Glad The Green Lady is up and running, it's amazing the difference a new clutch makes. The French garages here also think I'm nuts for spending money on a 19 year old car :-D
Do take things easy and best wishes for a speedy recovery,
Juliet
1997 Xantia 1.9TD LX (owned for 14 years) - Snoopy

Gone but always remembered
GS Pallas
GSA X1
AX - bad mistake!
ZX 1.9D
3 x Opel Manta
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