Take of the head off, or engine out. Discuss.

Russell · Post by **Russell** » 25 Jan 2004, 04:01

Engine is a Citroen XM 2.1TD, but for discussion or from your experience any of the TD's would do. I have a hypothetical head gasket problem, but want, crazy fool, to do the work myself... so
Do I take the head off?
or do I get the engine out?
Vote now..!
(Anyone done either or both..?)
Cheers
Russell [:)]

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 25 Jan 2004, 04:27

providing I was convinced the problem was confined to the head and the gasket and there were no other jobs in imminent need of doing - like clutch - I would take the head off in there. Most people seem to take the manifolds off while the head is on the engine which it seems can be a problem but if access is reasonable and you are fairly strong I can't see why this is done as it must be easier with the head off the car.
If you need a bit more room you can disconnect the bottom engine mount and swing the engine forward a bit, taking care not to damage the radiator (put some hardboard over it). I expect an XM is a bit more spacious than a BX.
I've no doubt that that will get this discussion going!
Jeremy

Russell · Post by **Russell** » 25 Jan 2004, 05:20

Some of the arguments for taking the engine out are:
Much better access: so maybe able to do a better job
Being able to check out, and or flush out the block, hoses etc.
Replacing the timing belt and tensioners without working down a 2 inch gap, saving a couple of hours and chronic back pain
Taking loads of bits off, so the overall condition of lots of parts can be properly assesed.
I don't know if there are specific problems with taking the whole unit out that make the job very difficult, or much more time consuming. Frankly, I don't mind spending an hour or two longer, if the job is easier, and I win complete access. But maybe there are some bum jobs which make this route much more difficult anyway: I don't know. Just trying to get the flavour..
cheers
Russell

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 25 Jan 2004, 07:00

I'd say it's down to work facilities really.
If you have access to longterm use of a heated garage equipped with any kind of an engine hoist - then I'd decide from the overall condition of the drivepack to remove it completely - i.e. in line with Russell.
It's so much more comfortable to work on anything fitted to engine - if you have the drivepack resting/supported on the floor out of car.
You can easily access any side of the engine.
This makes for much more efficient & reliable repair works - meaning in cases with larger engine repairs you save on easy acces - what you invest in extra effeort getting the drivepack out.

rg · Post by rg » 25 Jan 2004, 13:10

Russell,
You may wish to ask the question at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XM-L/
Lots of wise folks there who have accomplished extreme DIY work on their XMs.
HTH
rg

NiSk · Post by **NiSk** » 25 Jan 2004, 14:19

I have changed the head gasket on my similarly aged XM TD12 while it was still in the car. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have taken the engine out, why?
1) If you do it in the car, you MUST loosen the RH engine mounting and drop/move forward the engine - places strain on cables and hoses, risks damaging rad.
2) The head weighs a ton! especially when you're trying to get it BACK over the bolt holes.
3) It's much easier to check the condition of the hoses, especially the nasty little ones hidden under the inlet manifold and turbo air ducting - these should be replaced they are a real hazard.
4) Change your clutch, waterpump and pre heaters at the same time - much easier.
5) It also gives you chance to check out everything else that you normally can't see due to the engine being in the way!
I'm afraid that Jeremys suspisions are unfounded - there is NOT more room in a TD12 (in any case not if it has a turbo and A/C) than in a BX - I've changed head in both and believe me, the BX is a dream in comparison (mind, you it was petrol BX 16TRS).
//NiSk

monkeyman · Post by **monkeyman** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:08

I have done several headgaskets on those engine's and it ain't the easiest job to do. If i had the time and space i would have taken the engine out, just for peace of mind that i can check everything when the engine is out..........Good luck[:)]

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:27

Form what I've seen of BX 16's you can almost walk round the engine there is so much room. The TD BX is a much tighter fit. I suppose the 2.1 has a wide head due too the 3rd valve.
jeremy

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 25 Jan 2004, 15:31

..... and from memory the diesel engine is a swine to get at because both inlet & outlet manifolds are on the same side - towards firewall.
It's fiddly to remove either manifold in-situ - even on an 8-valve BX n/a diesel.

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 25 Jan 2004, 16:23

Drag it out get it on the floor and fix it, I am changing the belt,the octopus, the clutch and some of the more awkward hoses while its out too, I have done BX Diesel and Xantia heads in situ, getting the manifolds off is the worst bit. but if it was only the head gasket on an otherwise sound one I think it might be worth the struggle to do itin situ.
Stewart