Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

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Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by RichardW »

:roll:

You may remember a while back that Mandrake and I tried to change a ball joint on his Xantia - but all we succeeded in doing was mullering the castellations on the joint with his electric impact driver (hub on the car). It didn't have detectable play in it, but there is a clonk suggestive of play in it somewhere, so it may have to come out someday. Cue the stilsons I expect!!

This weekend I had to change both the joints on my 307. I've had one for the NS for over a year (it was an advisory on last year's MOT, and it's going in again tomorrow :oops: ), so strip the hub off (no brainer on the 307 as there's no way to get the arm / hub disconnected without unbolting from the strut anyway) and get it in the vice. Clean up and swing on the joint with breaker bar, and it fairly easily relented and easily unscrewed. Then I tackled the OS, thinking it would be easier given it's less in the water. Er no.... :lol: Clean up the joint and swing on it. Nothing. Add longer pole. Nothing. Apply impact driver (which Simon kindly left in my garage in anticipation of this job). Nothing :shock: Blimey it's tight! Apply heat, and then impact driver. Nothing. Hmm, not looking good! More heat, more hammering, more long poles, and just as I was about to give up (and applying about 1000 lb ft, wondering if the vice was going to rip out of the bench!) it let go :) It was then tight to screw out, and the thread on the joint was clearly damaged. Can't see that it's ever been changed, so it must have been poor from the factory - new joint did screw in, but it was tight all the way in.

So that's 2 joints that have laughed at 450NM of impact driver. I'm looking forward to helping Simon get that one out of his car when the time comes..... :rofl2:

Oh, and the 307 STILL rattles - suspect it needs a new drop link :roll:

PS Haynes captures this pantomime in its inimitable way "Fit a deep socket to the joint, and unscrew it" #-o =D>
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chinkostu
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by chinkostu »

the xantia one on mine did exactly the same with the castellations. We ended up using a foot long chisel and a bigger hammer!
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by CitroJim »

I've seen an electric (mains operated) Impact gun do the job on Xantia ones but it was an enormous one and very violent... Chris570 can advise the one as it is his...

I normally pop the hub off and then use a 4 foot breaker bar..
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

Is that the same Impact Gun he used on that RX-8 engine? It looked large enough to turn over the engine for the USS Forrestal.
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by CitroJim »

Hell Razor5543 wrote:Is that the same Impact Gun he used on that RX-8 engine? It looked large enough to turn over the engine for the USS Forrestal.
Yes it is James :-D

Even that one failed on the RX-8 initially and it took my oxy set to warm everything up cherry red before it let go!
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I remember that. I was wondering if it would go through red and onto yellow/white before giving up!
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by jgra1 »

Well done Richard :-D
I have had luck with stilsons in the past..when other things have given up. That sound like a nightmare though. And from the factory!
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by CitroJim »

Stilsons are wonderful things... I'd be lost without mine..
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by demag »

Ah yes the drop links..... :-)

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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by RichardW »

RichardW wrote:Oh, and the 307 STILL rattles - suspect it needs a new drop link :roll:
It does, cos the MOT man says so :) Just scraped through on the brakes, so new caliper required at some point in the not too distant future.
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by lexi »

Lots of these 240v impact guns are pants. I have a Sealey one and I don't believe it achieves it's massive claimed torque.
I borrowed a Snap On battery job. Amazing!.............and a feckin' amazing price to go with it.
I'll be going with a greasy plate jacked up under the socket, tie the strut tight and then the 6 ft scaffy pole. I got spare Lemforder ones just in case.
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by Mandrake »

RichardW wrote::roll:

You may remember a while back that Mandrake and I tried to change a ball joint on his Xantia - but all we succeeded in doing was mullering the castellations on the joint with his electric impact driver (hub on the car). It didn't have detectable play in it, but there is a clonk suggestive of play in it somewhere, so it may have to come out someday. Cue the stilsons I expect!!
It's still rattling away, whatever it is... :-D

I'm going to replace the track rod ends and drop links before tackling that joint again, that's for sure!! :twisted: I fully expect that if it is the ball joint on the hub that I may have to find another 2nd hand hub... #-o I can't see that mangled mess of what is left of the flange of the joint ever undoing, stilsons or not... :?
This weekend I had to change both the joints on my 307. I've had one for the NS for over a year (it was an advisory on last year's MOT, and it's going in again tomorrow :oops: ), so strip the hub off (no brainer on the 307 as there's no way to get the arm / hub disconnected without unbolting from the strut anyway) and get it in the vice. Clean up and swing on the joint with breaker bar, and it fairly easily relented and easily unscrewed. Then I tackled the OS, thinking it would be easier given it's less in the water. Er no.... :lol: Clean up the joint and swing on it. Nothing. Add longer pole. Nothing. Apply impact driver (which Simon kindly left in my garage in anticipation of this job). Nothing :shock: Blimey it's tight! Apply heat, and then impact driver. Nothing. Hmm, not looking good! More heat, more hammering, more long poles, and just as I was about to give up (and applying about 1000 lb ft, wondering if the vice was going to rip out of the bench!) it let go :) It was then tight to screw out, and the thread on the joint was clearly damaged. Can't see that it's ever been changed, so it must have been poor from the factory - new joint did screw in, but it was tight all the way in.

So that's 2 joints that have laughed at 450NM of impact driver. I'm looking forward to helping Simon get that one out of his car when the time comes..... :rofl2:
Oh dear...

I am coming to the conclusion that an impact driver may not be the best tool for the job for the Xantia's lower balljoint - the problem is not the driver as such, but the fact that the castellations that the tool has to fit into are made of relatively soft steel, and the balljoint tool that I had would not engage the upper layer of the two slots - thus you end up twisting the soft steel at the bottom without imparting enough impact on the joint itself. An impact driver only imparts high peak torque if the thing it is trying to turn is solid, not soft and stretchy! :?
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by CitroJim »

Simon, that's a good assessment of the issue.. Hence why the 4 foot breaker bar works well on even the most stubborn ones...
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by Mandrake »

CitroJim wrote:Simon, that's a good assessment of the issue.. Hence why the 4 foot breaker bar works well on even the most stubborn ones...
Not mine Jim! :(

We tried a breaker bar at least as long as that and it wouldn't have a bar of it. :-D It was still on the car mind you, albeit the hub was strapped down securely. Maybe out in a vice would be a different story.

Really not looking forward to that job again, I'm preying that it's the track rod end! [-o<
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Re: Ball joints 2 impact driver 0....

Post by CitroJim »

I always pop the whole hub off and mount it in a stout vice Simon.. The breaker bar really needs a very solidly mounted hub to work against. The slightest 'give' in the mounting of the hub just saps all the torque you try to apply to it...