Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

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stevelp
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Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by stevelp »

Just finishing off a motorway run in the V6 24v, when suddenly engine started to hesitate and be jerky. No warning lights, no unusual temperatures.
Now, on starting there is a very dodgy sound coming form the middle right of the engine (when looking at it). A quite nasty 'broken buzzing' type sound.

Being a 24v this is going to not be an easy or obvious fix, but has anyone ever had something like this happen before (150K miles) on an ES9 J4 engine?

How feasible would it be to do an engine replacement on an XM. Take the old out and refit with a new(er) one and then repair the broken one at leisure.
Can you get ES9 J4 auto engines from a reliable source?

Of course it could be the hp20 gearbox. Not sure how I'd tell.

Cheers
Steve
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Stickyfinger
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by Stickyfinger »

I have been constantly assured they are bomb proof.


Have you checked the belts/tensioners
stevelp
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by stevelp »

The noise is definitely from the right hand side of the engine when looking at it, the belts are all on the left.
The problem started when I put my foot down and the car changed gear to go up a steep hill.
So could be either the autobox or oil starvation to a bit of the engine.
Either way the engine noise is present when the car is in 'Park'.
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

I would hope that CitroJim sees this soon, as he is currently working on a V6 for his Activa.
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xantia_v6
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by xantia_v6 »

If it sounds like a piece of metal scraped across another, then it is likely to be the transmission. If it sounds like a tin can of nuts being shaken, it could be the catalytic converter.
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DHallworth
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by DHallworth »

If it started when it kicked down then it would suggest auto box issues. Especially at the mileage you've covered unless it's had regular gearbox oil changes.

From what I've read in the past, from 120k miles onwards the auto box becomes a ticking time bomb. My advice would be speak to a gearbox specialist. There's Mackie's in Glasgow who are a ZF agent and have a wonderful reputation for rebuilding ZF's boxes.

My advice would be DO NOT drive it as it'll only get worse and do more damage to the gearbox.

Where abouts in the country are you located?

David.
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by xantia_v6 »

If it is the 'classic' 4HP20 failure, then the white-metal bearing that supports the torque converter will have seized and spun in its housing (which is part of the transmission oil pump). If this is caught early, then the transmission should be repairable with just a reconditioned torque converter, a replacement bearing, a new oil filter and a gasket set. Of course there could be other collateral damage (mine had a seized differential output shaft bearing)

BTW, in about 5 months time, I will have a spare ES9 engine (less ancilliaries) and 4HP20 from an XM.

Note also that the XM 4HP20 has different gear ratios than the Xantia and 406 versions, so are not directly interchangeable (the ECU notices the difference and goes into limp mode).
stevelp
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by stevelp »

Well it is certainly not being driven any more! If you know the car it is a rather nice dark blue with the reg V6 XMS.
It really is the car to repair as the bodywork is perfect.
I will investigate further, I would like to know that it was the transmission and not the engine.
I'm in Bristol and my closest Citroen specialist is Tony Weston just outside Gloucester. However I might find an autobox specialist more locally.

I possibly would be interested in a spare HP20 and ES9. It might come to that in the end!
Thanks for the help
Steve
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by xantia_v6 »

You could drop in to https://www.automaticchoice.com (who are physically in Bristol). I don't think they repair transmissions themselves, but they are probably the best source of spare parts for the 4HP20 and they may be able to recommend a local repairer.

A good mechanic should be able to tell where the noise is coming from, if you can record it (briefly) someone here might recognise it.
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by xantia_v6 »

Here is a recording of my 4HP20 which died in 2009 (but was expertly repaired by Citrojim and did another 50,000 miles before I sold it). You hear the engine being started, idled for a while and then revved to 1500 RPM, idled again and then stopped.

http://www.ingenious.co.nz/xantia/Xantia_trans.wav

For comparison, here is a recording of my "spares" XM, which has an unconfirmed diagnosis of a broken catalytic converter. Note that the rattle does not really change with engine speed, and doesn't start till half a second after the engine has started.

http://www.ingenious.co.nz/xm/es9_rattle.wav
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CitroJim
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Re: Something nasty in the XM V6 24v - by the sound of it.

Post by CitroJim »

Sorry to hear this Steve...

The gearbox rebuild is not as bad as it might at first look...

Have a look at my web pages on the subject...

I cannot do a rebuild for you unfortunately but I'm more than happy to assist with any questions and guidance...