1.6hdi clutch flywheel or solid ??

[citroenc5mad]

Hi guys,
Im getting the clutch changed. However I'm not sure what to change. Ie just clutch, clutch and flywheel, or use a solid clutch conversion.

What's the pros and cons off them.
I am swaying towards the solid flywheel option tho.
Simply because off issues regarding the flywheel, ie it can wear alot quicker than the clutch.

It is a X7 model..

Be interesting in seeing everyone's view.

Regards

[vborovic]

I think there were several discussions on this topic already, can't say a definite conclusion was given ... some did actually go the solid (single) mass flywheel route, disregarding the ride quality for material lifespan ...

[wurlycorner]

Are you doing the job yourself, or getting a garage to do it? Some of them get windy about DMF's or just see dollar signs and say DMF's must be replaced, but...

It's not necessarily required to replace the DMF when changing the clutch.
DMF's aren't designed to be planned service item (i.e. to need replacing at each clutch change). They're meant to be an inspect and replace if required item.
The wear isn't because of wear to the face, it's because of wear in the sprung dual mass moving part of the flywheel.

(nb I should add that I'm not at all familiar with the 1.6 HDi, comments above are for DMF's in general, so no doubt others will correct me if the 1.6 is 'odd' and states that DMF must be changed regardless!)

[citroenc5mad]

Vborovic I did do a search, but when I put in 1.6hdi clutch it throws up loads off irreverent stuff. Did they say how it changed the ride quality, the only thing I can think off is gear changes get a bit tighter.

Iain A garage isn't doing it. A guy is fitting it for me, just for the charge in labour.5hrs
I would try it myself but I haven't got the time to do it atm

I understand that the DMF may not need replacing, but I'm budgeting in for a new one, and if I need to replace it, is there much difference between them and the solid ones.

[wurlycorner]

Hopefully someone on here will have some direct experience of that mod, with that engine.
The theory is though that you will get more vibration through the drive train and heavier clutch with the solid flywheel.
I'm wondering if that was why the clutch on the facelift that I drove a couple of weeks ago was heavier and lower... Perhaps it had had a solid flywheel conversion.

[RichardW]

Asked / answered just a few days ago: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=53965

Personally I would go with the DMF - but treat it with kid gloves, no reason it shouldn't last as long as the clutch. My two are on 90 and 110k on original DMFs / clutches. I'm very gentle with mine, SMWBO less so with hers but the main thing is not to overheat them - ie never hold it on the clutch longer than is absolutely necessary (or at all in fact!).

[citroenc5mad]

Thanks for the link Richard.

So basically it all comes down to personal preference regarding what to use then.

I also read on here it puts more strain on the transmission, using a solid conversion.
Anyone seam to shed some light on this.

[citroenc5mad]

Also guys do I need to replace the clutch slave cylinder also, as the kits I have looked at said they dont come with one but it may need replacing.

[RichardW]

Makers don't fit anything they don't need to, so they obviously thought it was needed. A traditional set up with solid flywheel has springs in the clutch driven plate to take up the vibration / shock load as you let the clutch in. A DMF has a solid driven plate, but instead has springs inside the flywheel which serve to damp out the vibrations as you take the drive up, but also damp out vibrations / torque spikes from the engine when it is running. So, if you change to solid type, there is a risk of increased vibration at idle / take off, and potentially if cruising at low RPMs. As the DMF is no longer taking up the torque spikes, there must be an increase in shock loading on the crank and gearbox - but I doubt this is that significant on a small 1.6 unit.

What symptoms have you got - has the DMF actually failed, or just clutch slip (or total failure!)?

A new slave would only be required if it was leaking, or if the release bearing had let go and taken the end off it. Anyway, on these it's external, so even if it is, it can be replaced easily. If it were a concentric one inside the bellhousing, then I would probably change it whilst the box was out!

If you replace the flywheel (either solid or DMF), you are supposed to fit new bolts, and make sure they are coated in locktite, otherwise the oil will leak out on your shiny new clutch....

5h is optimistic for one of these I would have though.... you need to remove the DPF / Cat to get at one of the gearbox bolts, and depending on room available, may need the rad removing to get the heat shield off!

[citroenc5mad]

Clutch is slipping and getting like a little crunch every now and then, the crunch has just started to happen.

The time is what I got quoted for, £175 35ph so 5hr was my working out.

It says they come with bolts and forks where needed. Then it says some vehicles also require a concentric slave cylinder which needs to be purchased separately.

[flying clutchman]

Every forum has arguments for and against solid/dmf fitting. I've fitted loads of solid conversions and the only one which was problematic was on a bmw 318d. The closest I've done to your vehicle would be a peugeot 308 Hdi but that was the 2.0l. If you do decide to go solid buy a genuine Valeo replacement kit from a reputable supplier (someone like ecp or gsf). Some ebay traders have been known to use conterfeit parts. I strongly advise changing the flywheel whichever way you choose. Unless you have specialist equipment you cannot tell the condition of a dmf (unless it's falling apart of course)

[SaabC5]

I bought an LUK clutch/flywheel set from ECP, the clutch pressure plate had Valeo stamps all over it so it would appear they get them direct from Valeo rather than make their own. Book time for clutch/flywheel is 9.5hrs so 5hr for just clutch seems a bit shy. Most people have them done in pairs because you don't want to pay the labour charges twice should the flywheel go 10k miles later. I would suggest 12 hours is nearer the mark for a 1st timer doing this job.

[BenC5HDi]

Book time for clutch/flywheel is 9.5hrs so 5hr for just clutch seems a bit shy.

In my experience, "book time" and "reality" are often two different things.

"book time"= time the manufacturer thinks it's dealers can get away with charging you for
"reality" = the time a decent Indy will take and charge you for. The last Citroen clutch I had done had a book time of 7.5 hours, it was done in 4... last timing belt, waterpump and tensioners on a 2.0HDi 8V - less than an hour.

In this case I'd definitely get the flywheel changed as well, in case it fails shortly afterwards after a few k miles as SaabC5 says..

[Bob L'eponge]

In my experience, "book time" and "reality" are often two different things. "book time"= time the manufacturer thinks it's dealers can get away with charging you for...

Going by those I know who have worked in the trade, "book time" is the time it would take to do a careful and diligent job, following all procedures to the letter, and without breaking into a sweat whilst doing it. Actual time is the time a mechanic will do take whilst taking every short-cut possible, wasting no time at all on any issue that might come up (such as seized or stripped bolts) whilst flogging his guts out to get it finished as quickly as is humanly possible, so he can get onto yet another rushed job and thereby earn his bonus!

[citroenc5mad]

Hi guys, just to let you know I went for the solid conversion, cant feel any extra vibration or anything.
I did get the valeo one from ECP got a good price once rang.

So far so good will check back in a few days once I get a few hundred miles on it.

Thanks all for the advice and help, bunch off great people on here