C5's 2.0Hdi vs 2.2HDi... Thoughts please!

[wurlycorner]

Last night my C5 had a coming together with a traffic island. Unfortunately it is not well... (damage is very localised to only 2 components, but one of those is the front subframe - which needs to be replaced...)
I can probably pick up a new subframe cheap enough (I expect around £50 from my local breakers) and get one today, but I'm not sure I fancy the (probably) 2 days it would take to change it when I should be spending my time fixing my 'hobby' cars instead! So while I'm naturally loathe to do this, I'm considering buying a replacement C5 instead.

As it's currently the only car I have on the road, time isn't really on my side so I'd be limited to what's available at the moment - some of which are 2.2's.

I know there are obvious benefits in terms of simplicity of the 110bhp 2.0 Hdi (and I'm perfectly happy with it!) but don't know whether there is actually anything to worry about with 2.2s?

What's people's experience/thoughts on them please? Pro's? Con's? Anything specific to that engine for me to look out for if I do look at any?

[Stickyfinger]

Sorry to here your problems so close to New Year.....a bit of a bu66er that

On the 2.2, they seem to give less MPG and suffer a little more from EGR problems.
The EGR/Anti Pol faults seem to stem from town driving and long/poor maintenance.
I think they suffer a poor rep based mainly on the fact the 2ltr is so good.

If all else is good and it is only the subframe, why not Hire a car for a few days and do the Job......rental is dirt cheep atm

[wurlycorner]

If all else is good and it is only the subframe, why not Hire a car for a few days and do the Job......rental is dirt cheep atm

Thanks for the feedback Sticky.

Yep, the rest of the car is generally good and I am loathe to bin a car rather than repair it (it's just not in my nature). I was all set to head off down to the scrap yard this morning, get a new sub-frame cross member and seatbelts (pre-tensioners have gone off) and get it sorted, but having looked at it in the daylight, the subframe is (-expletive removed-).

That isn't a particularly 'light' job to do and the C5 is meant to be the workhorse/daily, allowing me to spend time repairing and restoring my various other cars, so I have to make myself think rationally with this one - any time I spend doing long jobs on the C5 is (rare/valuable) time that I don't spend on them

Plus by the time I've bought a subframe and hired another car (I would need to anyway, 'cause I'd do the subframe on my ramp at the barn, which is 25 mins away) I'm probably not far off having bought another c5 - they're so cheap these days! Also I've been realising it will need a clutch pretty soon, so there is that cost to come up If I can find a higher spec one without the niggles that I still needed to sort on this one and that doesn't need a clutch (or any other major work) then that might be the best way forward.

[Stickyfinger]

Bin it then, esp if the mountings may be damaged. AutoTrader has some VG looking C5 Estates atm. Let me know if you need any help in my area.

Must of been a big wack for the tensioners to fire. Is your shoulder OK ?

[wurlycorner]

Yeah I'm fine.
It was a very low speed collision (I was pulling away from standstill) but cross member hitting concrete embedded in the ground = immediate stop (so computer would have seen nasty deceleration and decided that partial fireworks were in order)

[jgra1]

I may need to sell mine iain.. but it has a high clutch although this hasn't changed in the 45000 I have done ..
Sorry to hear your misfortune.
I had some on Tuesday .. involving a van with blacked out squares in the rear windows
Making sure the suit is ready

[wurlycorner]

Ah, sorry to hear that John.
Yes, I've noticed the clutch in mine being high.
The car has done 158k, came with a towbar (so one can assume it had been used for towing at some point before I bought it) and I've done about 8k which has either been around town, or towing a loaded car transporter, with a boot full of tools and other stuff.
Parking the car transporter at my end means reversing it up a long slope, through a narrow gap - so as delicate as I am with it, the clutch has definitely been worked hard in the latter years of its life and would be well within its rights to want a change shortly!
I was going to do it of course, but....

Not sure how long they tend to last on the 2.0 110bhp engine normally? Anyone experiences people???


Back OT, have been giving the 2.0 vs 2.2 a lot more thought...
Sounds like not something to avoid technically, but if the fuel economy is worse then it's not something to deliberately choose, all else being equal.

I do also remember hiring a Peugeot van last year with the 2.2 in it. Went like stink (seriously, it was a QUICK van!) but the clutch just could not handle the torque when towing the car transporter - it was so, so easy to burn! (And it was low mileage, so not suffering because of age)
So considering my towing requirements, I think that primarily counts it out....

[citroenxm]

2.0 hdi clutchs always seem high on the foot, I think its a traight of the hydraulic clutch..

2.2s do give poor economy, for a modern engine, but if the head gasket blows or the head has to come off for any reason, bin it again, the injectors RARELY ever come out, and the inlet has to come off to get the head off and injectors need to come out to get the inlet out.

2.2s use Eolys, misunderstood I think and caused a lot of issues ... like an experimental addivite setup.. Phase 2 2.0 16v hdi systems seem far more reliable.

The Van might not have the exact same engine in, it could be a Fiat engine, remember the Vans are all Fiat Vans, not PSAs except the smaller Berlingo type.

[wurlycorner]

Also good info, thanks..

I expect the van has a different map to the car and whether it's the same box or not, I don't know? But it is the psa (/ford) 2.2 HDi engine in the Citroen/Pug branded versions, while the Fiat branded ones use Fiat multijet engines instead. (not knowledge I carry around I hasten to add - I had to look it up! )

[citroenxm]

LOL... Bear in mind and this IS important the original 2.0 hdi 8v and 2.2 HDi 16v were unique to PSA... The Ford/PSA joint didnt come about untill 2005 for the big engines. I beleve it was just the 1.4 initially.

Besides that, Ford ONLY use the Blocks, and use a different head and mess about with the fuel system...

[wurlycorner]

Interesting then that the facelift 2.0Hdi c5 retained the old skool PSA unit rather than the Ford/PSA 2.0!

So 2.2's use Eolys, but the s2 2.0's don't?

[citroenxm]

No... The facelift used PSAs updated 2.0 engine, with a 16v head on it. Ford never used PSAs 8v 2.0 hdi EVER. Ford use the 2.0 16v block, but they mess with it a bit. Listen to a 16v TDCi mondeo and a C5 hdi 16v 2.0 ... they do not sound the same

2.0s do use Eolys, but its a better system, most liklely an updated ECU that controls the system, and seems far more reliable.

[wurlycorner]

Yes, sorry I know it went 16v - I meant old skool as in still used the DW10 engine (developed/up-rated) rather than the newer 2.0 developed by Ford (and in production by then).

[citroenxm]

Ahh. No the 8v 2.0 hdi was completely unique to PSA and Ford had no use of it at all..... Thats why no one has ever heard of the 8v 2.0 hdi engine outside of PSA because they didnt share it, except Suzuki, who used the 2.0 8v in the Vitara from 2000 to 2005....

[Peter.N.]

I have had both but my C5 is an 8 valve 2.0., very simple reliable engine and much better on fuel then the 2.2.

Peter