Citroen C5 x7 2009 Clutch Judder

[mark090167]

Hi All,

My car has recently started to judder when a set off in 1st gear and occasionally in 2nd gear. The car has driven 43,000 miles. Is this a sign that the clutch has gone or could it be something more sinister?

I have spent quite some time searching the web but their does not seem to be much about my vehicle.

Citroen C5 1.6 HDI VTR+ (Manual Gear Box) 2009.

Your help would be much appreciated.

Mark.

[dnsey]

Have you checked the engine mounts?

[qprdude]

Could it be the dual mass flywheel? Mileage is often irrelevant, as it depends how the car has been driven.

[GiveMeABreak]

Could be the clutch and / or DMF - but do eliminate the obvious as suggested by 'dnsey'. I had similar symptoms before mine went. As you have the diesel, try accelerating harshly in 5th or 6th gear where able at lower revs. You may hear the engine racing slightly with a delay in speed pickup or note revs rising and then settling back with a delay in speed increase. I had my clutch and dual mass flywheel replaced at 40k miles. When they looked at the DMF the springing was very loose and was on the verge of breaking up! Had both clutch and DMF replaced - but the DMFs have been known to go in under 20k miles - atrocious. The clutch is reasonably priced, but it's the DMF that costs and of course the labour! If you suspect the clutch / DMF, DON'T leave it as if the DMF does break up it can cause other related damage and expense.

[Bick]

Are you saying you pull away in 2nd gear or are you saying it judders in 2nd when the clutch is not disengaged?

[GiveMeABreak]

When I had the problem it often juddered when pulling away in first ( and second gear at low speeds).

[Stickyfinger]

My 1600 juddered as well, it is a very large car to move and I found it needed about 2k RPM on pull-away where the 2ltrs will pull at idle/to1.5k.

It did not stay long however so I never found out if that was normal

[mark090167]

Thanks for all you replies, very kind.

'GiveMeABreak' seems to have hit the nail on the head - "When I had the problem it often juddered when pulling away in first ( and second gear at low speeds) I'm going down the motorway tomorrow to try things out in 5th gear and see what happens then. It should be interesting to find out the result.

I might be being optimistic, a chap up the road from me had a 1.6 HDI C4 2008 with the same symptom's who had a good listen to my engine. He seemed to think that is sounded ok. In his opinion, if the DMF was failing then there probably would have been a rattly/clucky noise which would have been noticeable to the normal engine tone. The engine mounts could be a possible problem but he seemed to think that the clutch was on its way out after driving it. He also mentioned that there may also be an arm that controls the clutch that may just need a good lubrication? (sticky I think he said)

I suppose, not being a mechanic, I'm just dreading a huge DMF problem.

Thanks, any other advice would be welcome before a take the car to the garage so I can hopefully sound like I know something about engines LOL.

Thx Mark.

[fifth_cit]

It's been a while since I last posted.

I had a 2 litre 2008 estate that had the clutch replaced at 16k under warranty. It started to slip again at 33k The dmf was suspected and probably should have been replaced at 16k. I wasn't prepared to pay the £1400 quoted so I traded it and left Citroen.

It was a great car but the dealers let me down.

[Bob L'eponge]

I have a 2009 X7 C5 1.6 Hdi that developed much the same problem at about 75,000 miles. It became almost impossible to pull away smoothly, even with lots of delicate feeding in of the clutch and additional revs, and accelerating sharply from a standstill would produce a 'kangaroo' like take off. There wasn't anything really untoward in the way of noise at idle, but I changed the clutch and DMF and this solved the problem. The clutch itself was in good order but the damping on the DMF was shot.

After changing it the difference was amazing, with a very smooth take up on pulling away pretty much irrespective of how the car was driven, even when only using 1500 rpm or so.

I did the job myself without any real issues, and the parts weren't that outrageous, with a genuine Sachs clutch and DMF unit costing a little over £300 all in. In my view, given all the work involved in changing the clutch it would be mad not to change the DMF at the same time, especially now they seem to be a lot cheaper than they once were. Also, going for the 'solid flywheel' option (if one were available) would not be advisable, given the extra loading this would place on the transmission.

[GiveMeABreak]

Do shop around Mark, it is an expensive job from a dealer and as others have posted - do get your DMF done and/ or clutch at the same time. These are heavy cars and any clutch riding is a no no. Although some have opted for a solid flywheel replacement (although not available for mine and a lot of other engines) I too would not opt for this as Bob says due to additional stress on other components. This car is turning me into a Sunday driver, God forbid!

[mark090167]

I think you have made up my mind, after all its far cheaper than buying a new car.

I have changed water pumps, timing belts, fitted tow bars and pretty good with electrics. Is this job of changing the DMF and clutch beyond my knowledge. I have a access to the relevant workshop manual for my car. Be honest guys I'm not an expert but ill give anything a try if I have a fighting chance with limited tools/equipment! What do you think I should do?

[GiveMeABreak]

I guess it depends on how confident you feel about the job and could you potentially be without it for any length of time if things went a bit 'toes up' Get a quote anyway from main dealer as they do have some fixed price repairs now as they are trying to get customers back. Also there could be some peace of mind there if you needed to take it back if anything went wrong. With a DIY job the car's pretty much immobile if things went wrong or you ran into any probs. Either that or find a specialist you feel confident to trust the car to.
Good luck

[Peter.N.]

My 2001 C5 still has the original clutch and DMF at over 200k so unless the later one is of a different design I don't see why they should fail unless driven hard with a lot of clutch slipping but this is not characteristic of a diesel.

In the past when I have had this problem it can usually be cured by a bit of gentle clutch slipping, because the clutch doesn't get a lot of use it seems to roughen up, giving it a bit of slippage at not to higher revs will usually smooth it out.

Peter

[GiveMeABreak]

They are different Peter. My old 2001 also lasted over 170k until I sold it. I had a 110 2.0 HDI but that had a solid flywheel. Also they were lighter than the X7s I believe. Also my 2005 facelift 138 2.0 HDI had a DMF and that needed replacing with clutch at about 70k. It is usually the DMF that is the culprit as clutch often is still serviceable but makes economic sense to change both at the same time and won't outlast a new DMF. Trouble is if the DMF is left too long when it is on the way out, it can disintegrate and cause damage to the clutch and other parts. I was shown the parts by my mechanic. A lot of modern diesels have DMFs fitted on the more powerful engines to transfer the power more smoothly and prorect the transmission. As we know the torque being available in the low range allows you to drive at lower speeds in higher gear (which I think most people forget or don't think about when driving) so the DMF is under a lot of stress, so by design they are intended to take the strain and wear out. I guess the answer would be not to drive around town in 5th or get an an automatic .