No clutch, then no engine.

[Monkeyfeet]

Xsara 2004 2.0HDi. 110bhp's.
School run Friday morning, graunched into 2nd from 3rd then stuck in 3rd. Pulled onto the verge (must have gotten out of gear somehow as I did) but couldn't select any gear with engine running, clutch gone pedal gone loose. So not really sure if that's a hydraulic clutch mech or a thrust bearing prob. Anyway no clutch use at all.
RAC home? Well, only 3 miles to get back so with engine off I stuck it into 2nd, turned the key and launched forwards. Managed to swing around in a layby and made a T junction without stopping. Quite pleased with myself too. Anyway nearly home (3k to 3.5k revs at 30mph-ish), engine spluttered and died, never to restart. Towed home.
Plenty of fuel, can hear the pump spin, fuel to filter.
But, stuck the Lexia on and:
"Crankshaft - camshaft synchronising. Engine speed signal variation too sudden" and
"Crankshaft - camshaft synchronising. Engine speed sensor and camshaft sensor signal coherence"
Thought that I may have snapped the belt over revving (don't think I revved it that much..). Had a look and the belt's still intact.
So, could it have jumped a tooth? Tension seems ok
Cam sensor seems ok but can't find the crank sensor so far. Any hints please?
Can't be pure coincidence, can it? Oh yes, I forgot. It can be, it's French

[GiveMeABreak]

.. so with engine off I stuck it into 2nd, turned the key and launched forwards. Managed to swing around in a layby and made a T junction without stopping..

Now I know why they scrambled that squadron of Tornados over our house on Friday!

[Monkeyfeet]

Maybe I'd been RF-pulsed by the fighter as it went overhead having fried all my electrics?

[GiveMeABreak]

Yes, they do have a tendency to do that - or the UFOs they are chasing here!

[RichardW]

Does it register an engine speed on Lexia when it's being cranked? I wonder if part of the clutch (I thought maybe DMF, but looks like a solid flywheel) has flailed about in the bell housing and taken the crank sensor out - AFAIK it's on the top of the bell housing somewhere, buried under a load of wiring.

[Monkeyfeet]

Ah, that's a good idea, I'll try that tomorrow, the sensor's got to be there somewhere. I've not got a wiring diagram for it to see where the sensor wires terminate but if/when I find it I could try buzzing it out, compare one when sensor to the other. I do think the Lexia check would be a good place to start though. TVM.

[Hell Razor5543]

I recall when somebody had an explosive clutch failure on a C4. Although the clutch was then replaced, the bell housing wasn't cleaned out properly, and when the revs went over a certain level the remaining debris was picked up and spun around, shortening the life of the crank sensor somewhat. Once the remains of the clutch were cleaned out (and the sensor was replaced) the problem was resolved.

[Monkeyfeet]

Just plugged the Lexia back on - In Main Parameters: no crank speed showing and no (sensor) sync. Couldn't find an option to monitor the cam sensor speed but I don't think I need to really.
With airbox & battery etc in place I cannot even see the crank sensor wiring so I'll strip all the gubbins off to take a look next.

[RichardW]

I don't think it gives a cam speed read out - it just checks they are synched at cranking, then ignores it afterwards.

Here's the sensor circled in red. Probably under the thermostat housing somewhere!



I've changed the clutch in a 306 HDi - not the easiest, but not too difficult really. There is a cooler attached to the back of the box (where 307 est) is written in the photo (although that might not be the exact box, and I wonder if that is an EGS activator...) which is hard to remove - we were draining the coolant anyway so took the hoses off, but access to the fastenings is hard. Oh, and changing the clutch cable if you decide that's a good idea.....

[Monkeyfeet]

Yes, pretty sure you're right re the cam sensor, didn't bother spending too much time in Lexia looking for it.
Thanks for posting the photo. I think mine's slightly different though, it looks like the sensor's a screw-in type. Just about to take it out for a peek and the heavens have just opened.
Hydraulic clutch so maybe I'm saved a small amount of bother there.
Laters. (as my daughters say...)

[Monkeyfeet]

Ladies & Gentlemen, may I present a slightly worse for wear gearbox sensor.



Now I'm no Einstein but I reckon that just might be my problem.
Thanks very much for everyone's help on here for diagnosing correctly

New sensor ordered. Now I want to try the new one out, make sure that the engine returns to life so I'll have to risk damaging the replacement. Then I'll get another clutch.
I'm planning on hoisting the gearbox up & out, or is there an easier way? (apart from dragging the car to a garage that is)

[Monkeyfeet]

Sorry, meant to add, it is pretty similar to Richards photo & is definitely a b@gg@r to get to.

[Hell Razor5543]

I would seriously check the clutch area first. If the clutch shed any bits when it failed, and they are still in the area, they will get picked up and flung around and could break the new sensor. This is what happened to the C4 of my friend. He got about 50 miles out of a replacement sensor before the debris took it apart.

[Xantidote]

Good luck with it. Your photos certainly suggest the grey casing's sustained some impact, so hopefully the internals have also been upset/affected, & you don't have to look elsewhere to solve the problem

[Monkeyfeet]

Thanks for that, I agree, there's a more than a fair chance that the replacement's going to mangled too.
I can't put it back on the road 'cos the clutch is non-existant but I just need to make sure it'll run again before buying and fitting a new clutch. Rock and hard place really, but at least the sensors only £18, versus a clutch for what could be a dead engine at £100 ish.
So tomorrow morning: new sensor in, turn key, (fingers crossed) engine starts, engine straight off again, quick.