Xantia Engine Squeal.
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Xantia Engine Squeal.
Two months ago I installed a new hydraulic pump and aux belt and subsequently driven nearly 1500 miles. In the last couple of weeks it has begun to make this awful squeal/squeak when I first start it. It goes usually away after about twenty minutes.
I thought it was belt slippage so I tightned it up, it was a little loose, but it made no difference.
I have attached a video for your inspection and in the hope that someone has heard this before and can tell me what's about to blow up (hopefully nothing!)
It's a 1.9Td that has just reached 185000 miles.
Thanks in advance!
I thought it was belt slippage so I tightned it up, it was a little loose, but it made no difference.
I have attached a video for your inspection and in the hope that someone has heard this before and can tell me what's about to blow up (hopefully nothing!)
It's a 1.9Td that has just reached 185000 miles.
Thanks in advance!
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Sounds like a squeak from the belt, try squirting some water on it from an empty washing up liquid bottle or similar while its running, if it stops that's the problem, if not it could be the idler or tensioner but doesn't sound quite right for that. It could also be caused by a failing crankshaft pulley but I can't see any excessive movement on it in the video.
Peter
Peter
Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Hi,
I think you have aircon so the belt follows a more tortuous route than it does on my none aircon TD. That squeaking noise is very similar to what I had when the belt tensioner got a little worn (and also I suspect, a little dry of lubricant). Replacing the tensioner pulley got rid of the squeak (and the engine sounded quieter overall, though could be my imagination).
There is more load on the belt just after start-up, whilst the alternator puts charge back into battery, which explains why you find it goes away after 20 minutes.
I think you have aircon so the belt follows a more tortuous route than it does on my none aircon TD. That squeaking noise is very similar to what I had when the belt tensioner got a little worn (and also I suspect, a little dry of lubricant). Replacing the tensioner pulley got rid of the squeak (and the engine sounded quieter overall, though could be my imagination).
There is more load on the belt just after start-up, whilst the alternator puts charge back into battery, which explains why you find it goes away after 20 minutes.
Martin
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
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Xantia 1.9td Mk1 - Owned for 8 years, loved it to bits. RIP
Land Rover Series 1 - Owned for 19 years, ditto.
Triumph Herald 1200 - Owned for 21 years but in desperate need of a restoration. Spare lottery win anyone? - x 2
Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Thanks for the ideas guys! Going to try the water squirting thing in a minute.
With regards to the tensioner pulleys, I appear to have three. One which is on a sprung arm which can be viewed from above, another which is attached to the assembly that applies the tension force when you wind out the allen key and one little at the very bottom which you can just about see in the gloom towards the end of the video. I wonder which it could be?
Thanks for your replies!
With regards to the tensioner pulleys, I appear to have three. One which is on a sprung arm which can be viewed from above, another which is attached to the assembly that applies the tension force when you wind out the allen key and one little at the very bottom which you can just about see in the gloom towards the end of the video. I wonder which it could be?
Thanks for your replies!
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- Posts: 39
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Xantia 1.9td Mk1 - Owned for 8 years, loved it to bits. RIP
Land Rover Series 1 - Owned for 19 years, ditto.
Triumph Herald 1200 - Owned for 21 years but in desperate need of a restoration. Spare lottery win anyone? - x 2
Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Well, that water trick was an enlightening one!
Straight away the squeal stopped and the speed of the hydraulic pump slowed down a lot. A trace of steam gradually appeared from around the crankshaft pulley as the belt dried out and once it had, the grip returned and all the pulleys sped up again!
I'm guessing therefore that the belt is simply not tight enough? I must need a new tensioner perhaps, because if I tighten the belt any more, the pulley on the tensioner begins to hit the timing belt cover.
Matthew.
Straight away the squeal stopped and the speed of the hydraulic pump slowed down a lot. A trace of steam gradually appeared from around the crankshaft pulley as the belt dried out and once it had, the grip returned and all the pulleys sped up again!
I'm guessing therefore that the belt is simply not tight enough? I must need a new tensioner perhaps, because if I tighten the belt any more, the pulley on the tensioner begins to hit the timing belt cover.
Matthew.
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
The other point to note is that there are two sizes of belt for the 1.9TD depending upon which aircon compressor is fitted..
They don't differ much but just enough to cause the tension to be low if the longer belt is used where the shorter should be.
An easy check is to see if the eccentric tensioner is at the limit of it's eccentricity and the belt remains not quite tight enough..
Identify your aircon compressor and service.citroen can then tell you the belt length needed..
If you have no access to service.citroen than I or one of us on here can do the looking for you...
They don't differ much but just enough to cause the tension to be low if the longer belt is used where the shorter should be.
An easy check is to see if the eccentric tensioner is at the limit of it's eccentricity and the belt remains not quite tight enough..
Identify your aircon compressor and service.citroen can then tell you the belt length needed..
If you have no access to service.citroen than I or one of us on here can do the looking for you...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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- Posts: 39
- Joined: 15 May 2014, 19:25
- Location: Bristol
- My Cars: C5 Estate VTR - Teriffic machine. I wish it weren't so complicated though.
Xantia 1.9td Mk1 - Owned for 8 years, loved it to bits. RIP
Land Rover Series 1 - Owned for 19 years, ditto.
Triumph Herald 1200 - Owned for 21 years but in desperate need of a restoration. Spare lottery win anyone? - x 2
Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Thanks CitroJim!
I understand what you're saying about the belt. However I'm fairly sure I have the right size because I have plenty of adjustment left to go on the adjuster. I'm able to wind it out to the point where the sprung tensioner wheel begins to hit the timing belt cover. It's that fact that makes me believe my sprung tensioner needs renewing.
Also, when I replaced the belt, I didn't need to put a rod into the locating hole. It just pretty much sat there. That cannot be right, right?
I understand what you're saying about the belt. However I'm fairly sure I have the right size because I have plenty of adjustment left to go on the adjuster. I'm able to wind it out to the point where the sprung tensioner wheel begins to hit the timing belt cover. It's that fact that makes me believe my sprung tensioner needs renewing.
Also, when I replaced the belt, I didn't need to put a rod into the locating hole. It just pretty much sat there. That cannot be right, right?
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
No, that's not right!!!MFHBlueberry wrote:Also, when I replaced the belt, I didn't need to put a rod into the locating hole. It just pretty much sat there. That cannot be right, right?
The spring (auto) tensioner should be pinned with the rod, the belt fitted, and then the eccentric should be adjusted adjusted until the rod can be released. You should not be able to insert the rod without rotating the auto tensioner a fair way away from it's natural (fully extended) rest position...
Jim
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- Posts: 39
- Joined: 15 May 2014, 19:25
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- My Cars: C5 Estate VTR - Teriffic machine. I wish it weren't so complicated though.
Xantia 1.9td Mk1 - Owned for 8 years, loved it to bits. RIP
Land Rover Series 1 - Owned for 19 years, ditto.
Triumph Herald 1200 - Owned for 21 years but in desperate need of a restoration. Spare lottery win anyone? - x 2
Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Thought as much. Thanks for the confirmation. Time to dust off my wallet...
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Yes, looks like the auto tensioner has packed up...
Jim
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
I had trouble with one of those going baggy and banging on the timing belt covers.... I just fitted a permanent pin and adjusted it on the manual tensioner. Ran like that for a good while. Those tensioners are expensive (if you can even still get one*) and a bit of a PITA to change - you have to take the HP pump and alternator off to do it.
* looks like you can : Tensioners Don't like some of those prices though!!!
* looks like you can : Tensioners Don't like some of those prices though!!!
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
I went through all of this, replacing this and that till I discovered it was the aircon bearings, now running without the aircon in the loop (shorter belt and silence!!) until I can get the other compressor firred
Chris
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- Posts: 39
- Joined: 15 May 2014, 19:25
- Location: Bristol
- My Cars: C5 Estate VTR - Teriffic machine. I wish it weren't so complicated though.
Xantia 1.9td Mk1 - Owned for 8 years, loved it to bits. RIP
Land Rover Series 1 - Owned for 19 years, ditto.
Triumph Herald 1200 - Owned for 21 years but in desperate need of a restoration. Spare lottery win anyone? - x 2
Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
Really? Is it purely because of access? It looks like a matter of three bolts in various photos.RichardW wrote:...a bit of a PITA to change - you have to take the HP pump and alternator off to do it.
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Re: Xantia Engine Squeal.
It's the bolts that hold the tensioner spring in place that's the problem..MFHBlueberry wrote:Really? Is it purely because of access? It looks like a matter of three bolts in various photos.RichardW wrote:...a bit of a PITA to change - you have to take the HP pump and alternator off to do it.
You can do it (just) without removing the HP pump if you have a long ball-ended Allen Key but it's fiddly...
Popping of the HP pump does make the job easier though...
Jim
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