Hi all,
me again with yet another silly question. Quite embarrassed to ask, actually.
Car is a 1994 Xantia 1.9TD. er...does it have a fuel pump at the fuel tank end or it is all controlled from that big lumpy injector thing under the bonnet?
The problem is similar to one I had a few years ago. It is hard to start in the mornings but when it is going it seems okay for the rest of the day. It turns over and over for ages and then struggles into life causing global warming where I live; so much smoke and then it settles and it is fine.
A few years ago I was told on here (citroJim, if I recall but could be wrong) it was the fuel filter housing drawing in air so this was replaced and the result was excellent. Surely they last more than a few years?
Any ideas gratefully received.
Michelle
XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
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- flygirl757
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XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
1994 Xantia 1.9TD
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Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
There's no in tank lift pump on a 1.9TD Xantia. If it's an air leak, then starting will be improved by pumping the primer (above the RH engine mount) before trying to start it. However,, normally when you have an air leak, then starting is difficult, but when it does start it does so cleanly. If you get lots of cranking then it staggers into life with a cloud of grey smoke, then it probably needs a new set of glowplugs. Bit of a trial on this engine.... and fit only Beru plugs, unless you want to do it again shortly afterwards. If it's done lots of miles, and the plugs are recent, then sadly it probably needs the valve clearances adjusting - which is a major undertaking.
Richard W
Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
One source of air into the fuel lines, as may have been mentioned in relation to your previous problem a while back, is the small diameter black return fuel lines to/from/between the injectors, including the sealed short end fitting at the nearside end of the cylinder head. Over time, with heat and age, the pipes (about 4 mm dia.) tend to harden.
Martin
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
1995 Xantia TDLX (deceased )
- Old-Guy
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Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
Agreed - except I'd have said, "...especially the sealed short end...".Xantidote wrote:One source of air into the fuel lines, as may have been mentioned in relation to your previous problem a while back, is the small diameter black return fuel lines to/from/between the injectors, including the sealed short end fitting at the nearside end of the cylinder head. Over time, with heat and age, the pipes (about 4 mm dia.) tend to harden.
These small pipes are usually referred to as "leak-off" pipes because they return fuel leakage past the needle valves inside the injectors back to the fuel pump where it joins the leakage from the pump to all go back to the tank. Because the whole fuel system under the bonnet is higher than the tank, and the lift pump is integral with the injection pump, all of it, apart from the high-pressure side between pump and injectors, is below atmospheric pressure and, because air is vastly less viscous than diesel, air is easily 'sucked' into the low-pressure system.
Over-night, the tiniest leak will allow the injection pump to partially drain back to the tank. Then when you try to start in the morning, the pump has to prime itself; however, as there will still be some fuel in the bottom of the pump, injection will start on two cylinders before the other two - hence the hesitant start.
From experience I'd suspect that you have BOTH an air leak AND a couple of duff glow-plugs.
Replace the leak-off pipes. Sometimes 'universal' kits don't include the blind end, make your own from a stub of new pipe sealed with a suitable plug. I used a S/S wood-screw, 1mm larger in diameter than the pipe bore, with a plain, tapered, length under the head. With the thread cut off, and the cut end carefully smoothed this is a tight push fit and can be re-used when the pipe goes hard. It's important that the plug be smooth to avoid the slightest air-leak.
Check the whole fuel feed under the bonnet, from priming bulb to filter to pump, for leaks. Bad leaks will show as a slight weep of diesel if you keep pumping with the priming bulb. Replace any suspect pipes. The priming bulb itself might be faulty as might the connection at the bulb with the pipe from the tank. BTW it's normal to have to keep squeezing the priming bulb because the pressure leaks away through the pump's internal leak-off. Check for leaks, particularly under connections, with bits of paper towel. Be very careful if you tighten the 'banjo' connector on the fuel feed into the pump, it's easy to distort the banjo making a slight leak worse and difficult to cure. This steel pipe is NFP! Guess how I know...
You can check the individual glow-plugs with a DVM, but while dead plugs will show up as open-circuit, plugs which don't glow right to the end and are thus not effective, may appear to be O.K. When removed, plugs like this will be sooty at the end. A good plug should have a resistance of around 1.2Ω (between body and threaded connector). Power cable must be disconnected from a plug to test it. The centre two plugs are easy to test in situ, the end two are a bit of a nightmare.
[EDIT] Glow-plug Wiki here
Last edited by Old-Guy on 22 Sep 2015, 16:27, edited 2 times in total.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
WOW! Yet again, I'm very impressed.
How do you gurus learn all this stuff?
It will give my mechanic (boyfriend - lol) something to do.
Thanks a million.
x
How do you gurus learn all this stuff?
It will give my mechanic (boyfriend - lol) something to do.
Thanks a million.
x
1994 Xantia 1.9TD
- Old-Guy
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm) - x 17
Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
Bitter experience!flygirl757 wrote:WOW! Yet again, I'm very impressed.
How do you gurus learn all this stuff?
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
- Old-Guy
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1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm) - x 17
Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
I've just noticed I had a senior moment while writing my advice:
Original post corrected.
"injectors" should have read "glowplugs" -From experience I'd suspect that you have BOTH an air leak AND a couple of duff injectors.
Original post corrected.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
So glad it's not just me who has to rush off corrections (usually omissions/typos) to earlier posts.
Citroens:-
'81 2CV Club
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others:-
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& the numerous "abandoned projects"
'81 2CV Club
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others:-
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& the numerous "abandoned projects"
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Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
if its the glow plugs - I would get a quality brand (denso , bosch etc) - around £30 for 4. You do get what you pay for ; and when changing the 1 behind the fuel pump IS fiddly , but make sure its changed as well.
also check the connections to the glow plug relay - in my synergie its separate and away from the main engine bay fuse box , and the terminals are exposed and can suffer in time. After similar symptoms to yourself , I clean the replay terminals up and the car fires up on the button each tim (needed new plugs anyway)
also check the connections to the glow plug relay - in my synergie its separate and away from the main engine bay fuse box , and the terminals are exposed and can suffer in time. After similar symptoms to yourself , I clean the replay terminals up and the car fires up on the button each tim (needed new plugs anyway)
Simon
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Re: XANTIA DIESEL FUEL PROBLEM?
The general consensus on the forum is that for XUD engines, Beru plugs are the best VfM.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)