Xantia winter tyre suggestions ?

[Mandrake]

Hi All,

It's coming up on winter again and murmurings from the met office and elsewhere suggest that this could be a very harsh snowy winter. For reasons that I won't go into just now this time around its quite important that our car stays mobile this winter should the worst happen with the the weather...

For the first time I have a spare set of rims available that I can put actual dedicated winter tyres on. Also the tyres that are currently on the car are very old with hard rubber that has poor grip in the wet let alone snow and ice - I know they will be completely useless on snow or ice and the rear tyres in particular are quite out of round and giving a lot of vibration at speed that can't be balanced out. So it's time for some new tyres.

The problem I face is that very few tyre companies near me can balance centre-less rims, one of the only ones that has managed is the local National tyres and autocare, however when I check their listings they don't have *any* winter tyres in 205/60/R15 - this seems to be a somewhat obsolete size now

A search on mytyres.co.uk for 205/60/R15 in 91 load rating only turns up a maximum speed rating of H, not V that is speced for the Xantia V6:

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop. ... ologation=

The following page seems to suggest that a slightly lower speed rating (H is 130mph while V is 150mph, and the cars top speed is 140mph) is not illegal in the UK as it's still well above the speed limit:

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyrspeed.html

- but is this true in the eyes of an insurance company ? Also when looking up the number plate online it always suggests W for the Xantia V6 which is an even higher 170mph and higher than what the door card says. For a car with a top speed of 140mph this seems a bit odd.

If 91H tyres will be OK for winter tyres, what are peoples thoughts of the matches above ? If not, are winter tyres just not available in 205/60/R15 91V ?

Any suggestions appreciated.

[elma]

Winter tyres generally are a lower rating. I run v rated summer tyres and I think t rated winters although my Xantias came with h rated as standard. You won't have the same level of grip in winter, even on winter tyres as there's less friction available. As such I have no problem personally with accepting a lower speed rating for winter.

The other numbers by the speed rating are the load rating, eg 88h. This is the bit I'd make sure does not drop, bearing in mind that the load is the force of the cars weight plus the acceleration or braking. I don't think 88 is high enough for a diesel Xantia at 1400kg when you consider the braking load. The 88 rating gives 560kg ability to each tyre. I choose 92 or above which is 630kg a tyre, chart here.

These are the Dunlop's I use, I highly recommend them. No troubles in mud or snow, they aren't racing tyres though and don't respond well to being treated as such. The new Continental's are meant to be quite excellent as well but I've not tried them. Its unlikely youll get them in the uk, winter tyre patterns take years to come here. With mytyres/blackcircles etc I've had no trouble getting what I want in a reasonable time. Finally steel wheels are better on winter tyres, I find I often bump kerbs I cannot see in the snow.

[RichardW]

I doubt you will get full winters in V rated, and I doubt you will have any problems with the insurance co, some say you might, a quick phone call would confirm - but given the ditch finders that some (most on older cars!) fit, I doubt it's a problem. I've got a pair of almost brand new full winter Nokians here (probably H rated) on steel rims you can have, plus I 'm pretty sure I've got a third rim. So if you could find a fourth rim (what spare have you got?) you'd only need 2 other tyres to make a full set. You'd probably need a set of steel wheel bolts though, as mine are tapered rims. Mine need re-balancing, but that's easy on steel rims!

Alternatively, you could go for all seasons - I've got Hankook 4S on ours at the moment - I got V rated in 205/55/16 for the 307, but could only get H rated for the Picasso. Wearing well, as plenty of tread left on the front of the 307 even though they've done >16k miles. They weren't that dear either.

[daviemck2006]

For the 206 we had a few years ago the standard tyres were 195/50x15, I had a spare set of old multi fit alloys so I put 185/55x15 vredestien winters on them. Slightly narrower grips in the snow better I think. I can't remember the speed or load rating. I phoned the insurance and told them, all they wanted to know was that it was non standard wheels and charged me £20 for the pleasure. We're not interested at all with the size or load rating, or that they were winters. That kept them happy and me in the clear if there were any bumps or claims etc

[RichardW]

Thinking about it again - given your low annual mileage, and the difficulty with balancing, I'd go for all seasons. If you're feeling flush, there's the new Michelin Cross Climate - bet it's pricey! David H has got the kit to balance the centreless rims hasn't he? Have my Nokians on the back and a pair of Hankooks on the front, jobs a good un!

[Mandrake]

I'm doing about 6,000 miles a year at the moment but that's likely to increase a bit next year...

Thanks for the suggestion of the two tyres you have Richard, but it would be a shame not to use the S2 alloys that I got specifically for winter tyres... I'm also not sure how kosher it would be to put 195/65/14 (?) steel rims on the V6

I'm also a bit wary of any second hand tyres at the moment, both the original 4 that came on the car and the 2 second hand ones I put on the front have plenty of tread but the rubber is old and has very poor wet (and presumably snow/ice) grip, and none of the tyres will balance up properly due to flat spots in the old rubber so I'm getting a bit fed up with the vibration at speed - the only way to be sure I'll get rid of the vibration once and for all and have rubber that isn't going hard is to go for new...

How do the all season tyres work ? Are they just a compromise between summer and winter tyres ? Eg not as good as winter tyres in the winter and not as good as summer tyres in the summer, but better than sticking with summer tyres in winter ?

I don't have any first hand experience of driving on winter tyres or all season tyres so I can't really judge how they will perform hence asking for recommendations...

Last winter we only had a few days of un-salted snow/ice but driving on the old tyres that the car came with was very treacherous and slippery even at very slow speeds. When we got a sudden snow flurry out of nowhere on un-salted roads I had to creep home a mile at about 10mph in a 30mph zone as I couldn't go any faster safely... totally useless until the road was salted the next day.

[lexi]

You are just like them " Londoners"..........a little bit of snow and you are cacking yourself . It's Coatbrig' you are in not Braemar

[Mandrake]

You are just like them " Londoners"..........a little bit of snow and you are cacking yourself . It's Coatbrig' you are in not Braemar

Point is, on the tyres that were on the car, 15 minutes of fresh snow fall on an unsalted road (maybe 10mm snow at the most) and I had almost no traction at all - I could barely get up a small incline and had to use the snow mode for the gearbox otherwise even gentle throttle was spinning the wheels.

I've driven the Silver V6 in snow a few times on newish Michelin Energies (not even winter tyres) and it had much more traction than these old tyres.

I don't mind driving in the snow, I'd just like a little traction...

[lexi]

Aha .......maybe you stay in Cockbridge........near Tomintoul

You can let tyres down a wee bit for more traction in low speed snow driving. I remember after those two bad winters a few years ago. Arnold Clark had a big idea.He bought loads of winter tyres and was renting the tyres to you and changing the tyres over and storing your old ones.
He lost a packet as the winters reverted to type with rain and more rain

[elma]

I'm not sure about all season tyres. The way summer tyres work is that they grip from 7°c and the grip increases as the temperature increases. If the temp drops below 7°c the rubber progressively hardens reducing grip. Obviously there's the tread difference as well with winters being rougher and deeper.
Winter tyres are the opposite with grip increasing as temperature reduces below 7°c. They become less grippy as the temperature increases above 7°c. I change mine over based on temperature rather than season for this reason.
I know little about 4 season tyres, reading here gives some info. I expect they are an interim tread and a compound optimised for something like 0 to14°c. I don't get the impression they are great in mud and snow. Incidentally m + s is the marking to look for on winter tyres (mud and snow).
It's worth noting that most people driving in snow do not use appropriate tyres and they are just as likely to hit you whatever tyres you have. Not trying to put you off, great to have control of your own car. Just don't expect all the winter problems solved with tyres to do that you'd need a tracked and armoured vehicle.

[addo]

Maybe it's time for a Forrie. I find the interiors horrible but they do hang on quite well.

[Ben82]

Doesn't look like the cheapo GoodRide SW608s that I have are available in your size. That's what I bought last year for my C5 V6 (from the Swedish mytyres site..literally http://www.dackonline.se but in 215/55/R16). I've driven them in all major conditions (dry, wet, very wet, snow - salted and unsalted), and they have been fine for me.

[neil123]

I've always used Michelin Alpin on my Xantia in winter - they're a great tyre. As you say, highest speed rating is V (130mph) but these are fine. I like to keep the car on Michelins.

Alternatively if you want to keep your higher speed rating, Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme are superb tyres, very high speed ratings and good on snow (and wet, damp, cold roads generally).

I use those on my Audi S4 and have also used them on a Discovery - they were superb.

I'd look at prices from Allo.pneu, who I've had good experiences with. I personally wouldn't use Oponeo, although others have said they had better experiences than I had. Hope that helps.

[c.morewood]

I have driven through a snowy winter on new Michelin energys (9 years ago) But nowadays I always put on the vredstein snotrac 3 s on the front as the the morning temp gets below 7c. A couple of years ago i tried snotracs on all 4 wheels, but this made so little difference, I went back to snotracs on the front and a good depth if energys on the rear. This will get me through everything the winter has thrown at me in the past 8 years since I moved back to Aberdeenshire. The winter tyres will give you do,much more confidence. Simon and enable you to stop in a reasonable distance, where you wouldn't have a hope on summer tyres.
Just checked the price on openo.co.uk £61each free delivery.

[Old-Guy]

Slightly narrower grips in the snow better I think.

That's my impression too. In the bad winter of Jan/Feb 1981, my daily commute was some 30 miles along the spine of the Cotswolds in a Volvo 145 with a shovel and couple of big bags of grit in the boot. It was shod with decent radials, 185 x 15 IIRC. I never missed a day at work though sometimes I arrived a bit late and left while it was still light. The Volvo's secret, being designed for such weather, seemed to be a big heavy car with good ground clearance, on relatively narrow, large diameter, tyres at a time when most cars were on 12", 13" or 14" rims. Certainly I was able to keep going steadily when most of others were sliding around.

In October 2012, I re-shod the Green Lady's steels with a set of 4 Goodyear UltraGrip 8 (185/65 R15) - 195s not available. We haven't had a bad winter since, but on the odd occasion when we've had a bit of wet snow (that's then frozen overnight) these tyres have had amazing grip. Just once (so far), I've had the huge pleasure of sailing up a stiff motorway gradient on a couple of inches of virgin snow of lane 3, past two lines of stalled traffic in lanes 1 & 2.

Anyway, the bottom line is that at low temperatures and especially on snow/ice, any new M+S tyre is going to way superior to any summer tyre. Sorry Addo, on ordinary tyres, a 4x4 has no more grip than FWD - simple physics, it's all down to the co-efficient of friction between tyre and road.