Xantia HDI Driveshaft / Reluctor Ring Replacement

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

Hi all!

Well my dear old Xantia has just failed its MOT due to N/S & O/S split reluctor rings. I wasn't aware them being split was a fail - but there you go.

I've seen the reluctor rings are readily available - but have been advised against replacement due to them likely not fitting firmly enough once the mating surface has been sufficiently cleared of rust etc. Although they did say they could weld the rings - I wonder how long before they give way again or cause other issues due to their corroded state... Also would the extra distance between the two teeth where they have split likely cause any issues with the ABS ECU?

Having looked into the prices - it makes me wonder if it would be a better bet to just replace the driveshafts complete with said reluctor rings.

How easy / difficult a job is replacing both driveshafts?

I have to say I'm a little short in time presently - and my MOT expires on the 9th. So I am wondering if I should just get the garage to do the work. If so what sort of price should I expect for the work?

Thanks!

[CitroJim]

The reluctor rings are easy to replace but you do need to undo the driveshaft hub nuts, disconnect the lower swivels and pull the driveshaft CV joint free of the hub.

The old rings will very easily come off, sometimes they fall off...

Clean up, note the position of the old rings on the CV joint, warm the new rings in an oven (30 mins at Gas Mark7) and then pop the new rings on, gently tapping into place.

As they cool they'll shrink onto the joint.

Make sure new rings have the same number of teeth!

If you swap shafts you have the additional job of changing/topping up the gearbox oil (recommended to replace seals at the same time) and of separating the log driveshaft intermediate bearing from it's housing. That can be a game.

If the driveshafts are OK, just do the rings...

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

Thanks Citrojim!

Well they seemed quite adamant they would not seat properly after cleaning up. I have read plenty of accounts of them being replaced and nothing yet of any followup issues.

Who would you recommend as a supplier for the rings? I'm not sure how many teeth they are - my car is HDI110.

I don't think I have a hub nut socket either (35mm?) and I gather they can be a right PITA to undo. Got myself a 2ft breaker - no scaffold poles to hand tho

Well they just they came back with a quote of £100 for the labour to replace the shafts & gear oil (myself suppling the shafts) - which didn't sound too bad to me? It was suggested as you say to replace the G/B seals which is understandable.

Hmmm - what to do...

[CitroJim]

It's so long ago I did the job now I can't recall the supplier.. have a chat with James (Hellrazor) as he's done the job more recently..

Yes, You need at least a 4ft breaker bar to be able to know for sure you can undo the hub nuts.. I've busted a 2ft Halfrauds bar on them before now..

£100 for the whole job is not bad but do get them to pop a couple of new seals in. 5 minutes more work for them...

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

Yes I've read plenty of reports of broken bars - mine's a 2ft Halfrauds job too

I am veering on buying new shafts & getting them to do it - but I will message James too. As I mentioned before I'm short on time presently which doesn't help... Replacing the gearbox oil can't be a bad thing either after 15 years.

My next concern would be getting decent quality shafts - don't want them failing anytime soon. Any idea what manufacture shafts I should get - closest to OEM? Doubt I would be able to obtain NOS originals for anything like a reasonable price.

[RichardW]

Have a chat with these guys: http://www.jandrcvjoints.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They've got rings very cheap - and a step up from that if you are concerned about the ring staying put is to change the CV joint - for which they want <£20. You might think that is too cheap, but I fitted one to my 307 and it appeared good quality and has given no trouble so far. Will be a bit cheaper than pulling the whole shaft. TBH I wouldn't worry about the ring not fitting - if it ends up loose, then just glue it on with araldite or thread lock.

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

Thanks Richard

Yes indeed - just the outer CV's. I'll enquire how much the garage would charge just to replace those.

Just rang J&R and they have CV's for £15.99 - and the rings at an astounding £1.40!

If I were doing it I would need to get a decent breaker (1000mm?) and the appropriate socket (I read some don't fit?). The cost of these may not be far from their labour cost - and them doing it will save me the hassle & my time & possible blood pressure levels removing the nut! Mind you that breaker may come in useful again for something...

Oh my - I'm crap at making decisions!

[Hell Razor5543]

These are the rings I used on Gracie when hers failed;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CITROEN-XANTI ... 27c0132920" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And here is the thread I wrote on the day up to see CitroJim;

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=42871" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

HI & thanks James

Yes indeed those are the same rings / company - £1.40

Was it a HDI110 you replaced them on? Just want to be sure they are the correct fit.

Now my alloys are the type that don't have a centre cap to gain access to the hub nut - so would it be advisable to pop the steel spare on in order for the wheel / hub to be grounded before building up the inevitable sweat to remove the hub nut...?

I replaced the wishbones & drop links a year or so ago when the lower ball joint was separated - so that hopefully won't be as seized as it was first time around.

Could anyone advise a suitable breaker bar - and a correct fitting socket?

Would it be worth replacing the outer CV or indeed the whole shaft on this age / mileage car?

I'll have to make a decision one way or the other pretty soon. I may be called away tomorrow for a couple of days - and the MOT expires on the 9th

[Hell Razor5543]

No, Gracie was a 90HP HDi, so I cannot say if they would fit a 110HDi. I cannot offer any other advise (other than to get the right size socket, and make sure it is small enough to fit into the hub assembly (CitroJim had to grind his down a bit to make it fit!), while big enough to fit the nut!

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

OK thanks James

Does anyone know if the Sealey SX005 will fit?

Also how are the hubs for separating from the CV generally - are they likely to be troublesome?

I also have the issue of torquing up properly afterwards...

[Hell Razor5543]

Well, for torquing them back up some maths will help here. I know it is a high torque (more than my torque wrench can handle), but if you have a long breaker bar, an accurate set of bathroom scales, a calculator and some insulating tape, you can still do them up to about the right torque. For ease of calculation and measurement I would suggest we use the foot/pound scale.

First, weigh yourself wearing everything you will wear when tightening up the hub nuts and calculate it into pounds. Next, divide the necessary foot pounds by your weight. Remembering that the result will be a metric number (and not an imperial one), get ready to mark up the breaker bar. For each whole number add 1 foot from the pivot point along the breaker bar (so 1. would be 1 foot, 2. would be 2 foot, and so on), while for the decimal number add 1.2 inches (so 0.1 would be 1.2 inches, 0.2 would be 2.4 inches and so on). Wrap some insulating tape at the appropriate point on the breaker bar (so 2.2 would be at 2' 2.4"). Now tighten up the hub nut as best you can normally, then position the breaker bar in a horizontal attitude (with the socket on the nut, obviously), and carefully stand on the breaker bar at the marked point (the socket might come off the nut, or you might slip off the bar, hence the carefully bit). Don't bounce on the bar, you want an even steady pressure. All being well, the bar will now go down a bit. Reposition the bar back to horizontal, and repeat. When you get to the point when your weight won't cause the bar to go down (when horizontal) you are probably close enough to the right torque for the job. IIRC there is an outer cap that goes over the hub nut that (when positioned correctly) allows a split pin to go through the shaft and lock the nut in place.

I hope that this helps.

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

Well that's an interesting way of doing it

That worked out at 16.8 inches if I've done the sums correctly?! I'm 12 stone clothed (I don't intend on doing it naked!) and the required torque is 236 lbf ft according to the BOL.

Might it be acceptable to mark the nut / hub before removal and tighten the nut back up until the marks align?

Did you have any fun separating the axle from the hub?

Thanks again - decision day tomorrow

[CitroenCrazy]

For what it's worth. I've replaced two Xantia reluctor rings. My mechanical skills are pretty modest in comparison with many on this forum, but I didn't find it too bad a job at all.

I have a 3/4" drive socket & a hefty bar, and still needed a scaffold extension, but apart from that, no bother.
I think it was on this very forum someone posted an excellent tip, which is to use a short extension between the bar & the socket, and support it with an axle stand, as shown here:
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I'm not really sure I get this idea that the ring won't stay in place. I never had the feeling that would be a problem on mine, and in any case, a good coat of hammerite or similar will seal the ring in place well enough.
I bought the rings on ebay for a couple of quid each. The thing to watch, as others have mentioned, is that there are different types for the Xantia, so be careful to check the diameter, width and number of teeth.
Good luck.

[XantiaExclusiveHDI]

Thanks

I'm thinking from other's experience that my Halfrauds 2ft breaker may not be up to the job. I think I may have a 1/2" T-bar somewhere which has been suggested as an alternative (complete with scaffold pole).

Yes that tip is a very good one - as per this guy on Youtube - wonder if he is on here



But there is the faffing around trying to find the correct socket that will fit and possibly buying a new breaker. Then as you say getting the correct ring - I wasn't aware there were different sized ones for the Xantia. Also the concern about torquing it up properly. I have also seen it suggested that the hub nut must be replaced.

This and time isn't on my side