Xantia V6 non starter

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superloopy
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Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Right guys ... the v6 has been sitting for about a month sans battery. Battery charged and now no starty. Turn on ignition and only thing illuminating is battery icon. Nothing on key insert or key turn, no key symbols or beeping noise. Plip locks and unlocks car just fine. Lights are working and dont dim at all so i'm happy that battery is ok. Best place to start? Is there a recognised battery out. battery in, procedure cos if there is i've never had a problem before. Maybe the old girl has just decided enuffs enuff!!

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Last edited by superloopy on 20 Aug 2015, 13:53, edited 1 time in total.
Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by Stickyfinger »

is the pump running ?
Key fault ?
Engine/main earth ?
How "old" is the battery ?
Alasdair
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Can hear pump and relays etc. Dont get anything on console except the battery light on key insert. I'm thinking key fault but i'd expect the dash to light on inserting the key but just not start the engine due to immobilser if that was the problem. There's nowt at ignution turn. The battery is good.

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Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Update ... Key in, turn to accessories position 1 and battery display lit as you'd expect. Turn to second position and zilch, nada, nowt, nothing lights up, battery light remains. Fuses checked and aok. Can hear clickety click of relays, electrovalves that sort of thing. Can't hear pump though. If i remember rightly the pump should run briefly even if the key itself is not recognised ir is that only with ignition itself on? Ignition switch maybe? Big job to change? How do i go on with different ignition key and immobiliser?

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Last edited by superloopy on 20 Aug 2015, 16:22, edited 4 times in total.
Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
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Mandrake
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by Mandrake »

So, the accessory position works (does the radio come on ?) but the on position and starter position both don't work ?

It seems unlikely that two independent sets of contacts on the switch would both go faulty...eg even if the normal "on" contacts that provide power to the ECU etc were faulty the starter should still turn on Start.

Do you have a multimeter and know how to use it ? Try popping the top plastic cover off the engine, unplug the connector on the left hand side of the coil pack - it has 4 wires - one is 12 volt feed to the coils via one of the double injection relays, and AFAIK that should be powered with the key on even with the engine not running.

If so that gives some indication that the engine ECU has power and is turning on at least one of the injection relays. The fuel pump won't always run with the key on by the way - it will run once for a couple of seconds to prime when you turn the key on after sitting for a while but will not run again until the engine is turned over.

Another thing you could try is to put it in the on position and then jump feed the starter solenoid from the battery to crank the engine, to see if it starts, despite the lack of lights on the dashboard...

BTW you're in neutral or park right ? The starter will be disabled if you are not.

With the key on, does pressing the brake pedal release the parking brake locking solenoid ? (it should click on and off when you press the brake pedal with the key on and the gear lever in Park)

Are any lights lit up on the gear lever repeater in the right hand corner of the dash - if so which lights ? Do the sport and snow lights activate if you press their buttons with the key on ?

Edit: just thought of another test you can do - unplug the connector to the throttle position sensor (on the side of the throttle butterfly) or the MAP sensor on the rear of the inlet manifold - both of them should have 5 volts on one of the pins if the ECU is powered.

I have full wiring diagrams for the Engine ECU for a S2 V6 so can post them up if that would be helpful. (Depends how good you are with electrical circuits as to whether it will help you)
Last edited by Mandrake on 20 Aug 2015, 17:14, edited 1 time in total.
Simon

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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by Mandrake »

Here are the ECU wiring diagrams:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/782 ... nciple.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/782 ... lation.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/782 ... Wiring.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: I pasted the starter wiring diagrams but realised they are for a manual so I'll try to find the automatic version.
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White

2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Cheers Simon ... give me a chance to digest that lot ... But she's dead in ignition and starter positions. I've checked all fuses except one ... the fuse in the starter mod relay. That must be in line with the ignition switch i'd think. Worth a check anyway. Cant remember which wire i cut now to insert the relay?

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Last edited by superloopy on 21 Aug 2015, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Simon ... those links '404' on me. Any chance of a repost?

Just a couple of answers. Nothing has been done on the car since removing the battery for charge. The radio does come on. Everything else seems to work, internal lights, windows,door locking et al. Nothing changes when i switch from accessories to ignition and then turn to starter. No lights on dash, no gearbox lights lit, no click when pressing brake pedal to indicate solenoid unlock. Going to take a look today. I do have a multimeter but am a dummy when it comes to using it.

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Last edited by superloopy on 21 Aug 2015, 09:28, edited 2 times in total.
Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by xantia_v6 »

Northerner wrote:Simon ... those links '404' on me. Any chance of a repost?
They work for me.

Don't discount the possibility of a fault in the interior fusebox, or the wiring to it, both of which seem to happen to Xantias of about that age.
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

xantia_v6 wrote:
Northerner wrote:Simon ... those links '404' on me. Any chance of a repost?
They work for me.

Don't discount the possibility of a fault in the interior fusebox, or the wiring to it, both of which seem to happen to Xantias of about that age.
Do they?

Must be Tapatalk problem then. I'll hop on to a 'real' PC and grab them. Thanks.

I cant understand how the accessories side of the switch is working. Doesnt it take 12v for the whole ignition set up which would moreorless prove the wiring side of things? Suppose i need to check 12v is getting to the big brown (or is it grey) wire to ignition switch. First job, check relay fuse underbonnet and do checks as suggested by Simon although i've never had the engine cover off! Possibly move on to removing steering cowels and checking ignition?

<Edit> Got the diagrams now ... must be Tapatalk that has a problem.

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Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
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x 825

Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by xantia_v6 »

Northerner wrote: <Edit> Got the diagrams now ... must be Tapatalk that has a problem.

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Tapatalk has removed the ability to open external links. It happened in an update a couple of months ago, reportedly because apple were going to throw them out of the app store if they didn't.
superloopy
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

That explains it then .... cheers!

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Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
superloopy
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Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Well ... typically for the summer up here, it's lashing it down again! Managed to get the engine cover and steering cowls off though before the heavens opened.

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Last edited by superloopy on 21 Aug 2015, 17:22, edited 2 times in total.
Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
superloopy
Posts: 3306
Joined: 30 Mar 2005, 03:25
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 18

Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Did absolutely nothing .... and she fired up first time this afternoon. I'm wondering whether the fact that the battery had just come off an extended charge yesterday had anything to do with it not starting? Just checked across terminals and its showing 12.48v today ... ok? Doesnt inspire confidence though. It's the first time this has happened.

Thanks for all the advice though. It might still be needed i fear!

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Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
superloopy
Posts: 3306
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x 18

Re: Xantia V6 non starter

Post by superloopy »

Anyone any thoughts on this? I've been out for a run today. Started first time and ran well but i've lost confidence until i can at least go someway to understanding why there were no dash lights after a battery swap until the following day???

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Mike

Xantia Activa Dante Red MK1 (96) 121k - SORN, to be broken
Xantia Activa Silex Grey MK2 (98) 120k -SORN, ditto
Xantia V6 Silex Grey MK2 (98) 95k - non-runner
Xantia TD Storm Grey MK1 (95) 95k - non-runner
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