C5 X7 buying guide

[triumphtoledo]

HI Guys,
Would experienced X7 owners care to contribute with their advice on a buyers' guide I am collating. Based on my own knowledge (and having an X7 for a week, after driving facelift versions of the previous generation for 5 years), here's what I have got up to:

Electric windows & air conditioning failures, along with radiator fan.
DRL lights on early cars (non LED versions) tricky to replace
All engines good, bar the usual 1.6-litre issues
C5 not on run out at the moment, as it will inherit the new PSA Euro VI engines
Unsure what transmissions were used. Was the 1.6 a 5-speed only?
What auto boxes were used? I presume the old AL4 was ditched completely.
Suspension arrangement on Exclusives looks very different to the previous generation. Any problems. Looks as though the old rear calliper corrosion/rear arm bearing problems have been eradicated?
Sat Nav is a bit crap, even the latest version (the 63-plated test car's nav got lost on the M5!)

Anything else - comments are welcome!

R

[vborovic]

Starting form the top:

- can't say that's generally true
- not true, you just have to have the right tools and smaller hands at your disposal
- unsure, I don't know of anyone who already did 200-300k miles to see what the engines look like after that distance (and what failed, if anything)
- the again "redesigned" C5 will be announced on the Frankfurt Car Show, new navigation unit, and newer BlueHDI engines (150/180 BHP)
- take your pick: AL4, AL6, manual robotized (3 sub variants), BVM5 & BVM6
- I have steel sprung suspension, can't help you with this
- wow, if this is your judgement after only having the car for a week, you must be a GPS expert or a GPS manufacturer ... I've covered 20000 miles with the GPS in mine (2 nav versions actually), it let me down 3 times, and when I checked with Navigon (Android) and Garmin (handheld), they all failed at the exact locations, meaning, it's the maps, not the device itself

[Richard_C]

One of the things about forums is that people ask for advice on problems they have encountered, those without troubles remain silent so you get a generally pessimistic view of the car in question. You end up worrying too much. I do worry about things like window cables (but not drl bulbs) but so far have had no problems.

I have a 2010 VTR+ tourer. Steel springs, 163bhp hdi. Bought it one year old with 20k on it, 4 years on it has 70k on it. Usual tyres (27k fronts, 45k rears), brakes done once, and routine servicing. The only issues I have had are occasional dpf warnings early on when I didn't really understand what it all meant and the best way to clear it, and very recently some corrosion inside the 3rd brake light, just cured with a wire to bypass the dodgy bit. The myway satnav (not the later e-myway) is a bit clunky but works just fine. Only lost its place momentarily once or twice.

The best long distance cruiser I have owned, the alps are just an easy day trip away. SAAB 9-5 came close but didn't have the economy or range.

Have faith, they are great.

[Stickyfinger]

100% correct \Richard

I think the worry hits you the first time you join a forum in a lot of cases.
A lot of people join at first to try and fix a problem, often worried about the cost the local garage has quoted of to find a part Citroen want 300% more than expected for !.
As such and in an already worried out look, you start searching for "your problem". As is the way, you are initially offered many options on many "problems" which seem at this early stage unconnected.....you read on finding more and more as you read.
= The car is a DOG.....agggggg what have I done !

with time however, you see the forum as a library to reference when or if you may have a problem, life becomes calmer if you just look after the car correctly (as below) and use the forum as a library full of amusing Citroen owners some of who I swear are totally bonkers

What is good is the "standard" service recommendations that every new car owner should read so things like a shorter service time on oils, filter options and other such "life extenders" can me performed with some degree of priority after you have purchased a new car.

I have had a few things go on my present X7 one, fan, pump, bearings and a gaiter, a shame but not surprising on any car of its age these days. Others have seen struts, steering Racks ect. on the same type. With that the normal EGR and DPF problems every car gets these days, I really do not think it adds up to the present C5x7 being anymore problematical that say an Audi/BMW/Pug/Renault or Jag for example.
More and more "parts" are starting to hit the market from "recovery" breakers, to date the Dealer option was really the only one for most and has proven expensive if the car is out of warranty.

[SaabC5]

Exclusive gets the Hydractive 3+ suspension with sport mode carried over from the MK1 2.2HDi. It also gets the electronic handbrake, both were available as an option on lower spec models but i've seen one VTR+ with them in 4 years working at a car auction!

Leaking large bore A/C pipe going to condensor is common failure, the new pipe is a revised part.

[Xantippa]

THP is NOT an good engine. Diesels are quite good, 1.6 not that good for a car this big.
Front struts leak very often and are costly to replace, check them always if there's an real suspension on C5 X7 you're buying.
AL4 comes with petrol 2.0 engine, I think only on 08-09 -models. I´d avoid them. So If you want to have automatic gearbox and petrol engine, go for 3.0 - it's got AM6.

[triumphtoledo]

Thanks for your comments thus far. Obviously, I haven't joined the forum just to get answers - as I've been here for some time (including the old Andyspares forum, when I had my GSA, BX and Xantia).

As wifey dearest and I drive a pair of C5IIs, we both came to the same conclusions with our loan C5 X7 Tourer, which we took on a holiday break:

1. The new car looks awesome outside but at a cost. It's not as spacious inside and the rear luggage space is definitely smaller, compared to its uglier predecessor. Madame tends to pack the cars for holiday trips and commented that the new car has definitely sacrificed style for practicality. The opening rear hatch has gone too . Yet, the quality of interior trim is far higher. I'm unsure about build, as both our C5IIs are not rattling/falling to bits after 80,000 miles.

2. The suspension pumps up slower than the earlier cars but doesn't tend to drop suddenly at the front, which both our C5II estates do. Having said that, the suspension is of a different design, with a modified rear end and double wishbones up-front. It's also more subtle/refined about raising in the morning, which is nice.

3. My C5 II Exclusive has sat nav (RT3) which is slow to respond, when keying in directions. The one fitted to the test C5 X7 was the latest version (eMyWay I think) and was far quicker. Yet, its performance on the move was a bit cack: as I said, it managed to get itself lost several times (including on the M5 as mentioned, in a spot where my C5 II does not). It also no longer has voice activation, which works on my car and saves ploughing through the menus.

4. The steering wheel buttons are very fiddly and not as initiative as the rotary switch/buttons behind the wheel on the older car. I am glad that the sat nav screen is not a touch screen (I late finger prints) and the ignition is not keyless. I daresay that they work well, once one is acclimatised.

5. Loving the panoramic roof (a £600 option) - shame it doesn't open.

6. The hard seats and 19-inch rims were at odds with the hydropneumatic suspension but, even then, the ride is far superior than that of many other cars. The seats on our C5IIs feel more squidgy, though and we felt that the hard X7's seats were a retrograde step, even though many non-Citroenists might prefer them.

7. Like any big Citroen, fast driving on small, twisty roads are not its forte; selecting 'sport' helped. Thankfully, that lovely floaty feeling is still there. Obviously, long motorway runs are its forte, at which it excels.

8. I hate electric handbrakes but the one fitted to the X7 worked very well; Madame loved it.

9. The 2.0-litre 160bhp engine is a peach; much more eager to rev, than the 138 version in my C5 II, and with a wider power band. I feel that it is about 5mpg less economical though (even when compared to the optimistic MPG readout on the C5 II), although I suspect tyre/rim choice influences that, as well as the higher kerb weight.

10. That lovely 6-speed manual gate remains, although I think the throw may be slightly longer. The pedals are nicely weighted too. The steering has very little feel, even less so than the C5II.

11. Excellent parking assist system and camera. Not so great automatic boot lowering control, which is rendered useless by the economy mode that, on the test car, would only give us about 15 minutes before shutdown.

As for my comments about reliability, I am not reporting that the X7 is a dog; far from it. It is possibly the last hydropneumatic Citroen and used ones are a bargain, compared to the opposition. I do wish to recommend the car.

It would be useful to gauge users' longer term experiences of the model. I agree, in that I don't think DPF/DMF issues are more or less worse than any other modern car. Struts are interesting though; where can they leak and how, as the mechanical arrangement is very different to the C5/C5II? I have heard about leaking racks and fairly short tyre life.

Is there anything else that is pertinent? What are your experiences?

R

[Ceenine]

We have a C5 X7 Touring in Comfort model which has cloth insert in leather seats, all leather steering wheel and 17 inch wheels. It doesn't have sat nav or sunroof. I am happy with his level of spec. I may buy a sat. nav. to take from car to car however rural Tasmania is easy to navigate. Would assist around Melbourne and Victoria generally.

I like the cloth inserts, especially on 30 degree plus days travelling in Victoria, and not cold to the touch on 0 deg. mornings in winter. The seats couldn't be more comfortable. The settings are amazing, especially around the shoulders. Far better than our C5 11 which is all leather, with electric motion but no memory which is a real negative when my wife and I swap cars all the time.

The power in the C5 (2.2 l twin turbo) is noticeably more powerful and far better for towing our A'van caravan (1 tonne). As the Tourer is heavier than the C5 11, the combination of weight and smaller motor (2l), the result is predictable. The older more powerful car is a sports car by comparison. It is far noisier too, both inside and outside until you get up to 110 km/hr when the older car is as quiet.


The C5 11 sedan is far easier to access the boot than the Tourer. You can access the boot with a bike rack on as well.

Tyre wear is traditional C5 with 27k front and 35k back for both vehicles not matter what make (including Michelin). Our C4 got 60+ k with XM 1's.

The steering has good feel both cars and not noticeably different. I greatly prefer the radio remote controls on the older car and cruise control controls for that matter.

Both cars have the AM6 (Japanese Aisin) auto transmission which is faultless. We get 7.3 l/100km on the C5 11 and 6.7 l/100km on the X7. We do mainly country driving with little stop/start. Couldn't go back to manual. I have a 405 Mi16 manual to play with and I stall it moving it around the property.

The ride in the X7 is slightly squishier than the C5 11. I just hope PSA continue with the Hydralastic (?) suspension. It is far more comfortable than anything else out there. Definitely a real cruiser.

The X7 is the best designed wagon amongst the current offerings around the planet. It is a pity and surprising that they have had such low market acceptance in Australia.

The two models are very different cars and except for the mode of suspension, you would think that they were of different makes. The X7 continues to be different from everything else out there and therein lies the attraction.

[triumphtoledo]

Thanks for the Aussie perspective. Very interested. Anyone else wish to comment?

R

[Homer]

We have a C5 X7 saloon with the steel suspension.

In the past we had several BXs and a couple of Xantias, the most recent one a Turbo CT Exclusive estate. More recently a Pug 807 and a Renault Scenic.

Even though ours does not have hydropneumatic suspension it does have a very Citroen big car feel to the ride.

Not had any issues with the sat nav though (not even on the M5) but I have got the latest map updates. I have to say the official price of updates is a bit steep, especially considering they aren't even that recent, and if I'd had to pay then I would probably just use my phone instead.

[RustyUK]

I've had an X7 saloon since around May. 59 plate, 2.0 diesel VTR+ nav, saloon. At the moment I can't decide how I feel about it.

The good, while it's steel sprung, it feels comfier than typical steel sprung cars. Not magic carpet, but I can't feel every last stone in the road either. The double-wishbone front suspension probably improves the handling. Compared to my old 2001 C5, handling is incredibly precise. The in-built navigation is usable, easy to look at, and integrates nicely with the colour LCD in the speedo.

The bad, where do I start? The windows seem to 'creak' when fully up, I think this is a defect in the rubber-felt material the glass pushes up into. You can run your finger along it and it vibrates like polystyrene. The interior door handles are made of the worst plastic, they creak often very badly at the lightest touch. I'm in the process of minimising that with felt tape between the pushed-together halves. Together, this means the car pisses me off like nothing before, it cheapens the whole experience (but this seems typical of all modern expensive cars now, sadly). The fixed steering wheel centre is fantastic (how does it work?!) but it vibrates, I'm yet to sort that.

I hate the saloon, it has a reverse-tardis boot. Sure, it looks huge, and I love the concave rear window, but the boot just seems to shrink the moment you put anything inside. Too much space is taken up by the huge boot lid hinges. If I buy one again it'll be the tourer. On the satnav, while it's easy to use, you can't enter the full postcode, only the first half and first digit of the second half, then enter the street name. I guess Citroen didn't want to pay for the full postcode database? This means it was unable to guide me to a Travelodge on a motorway services! Updates are outrageously priced but I got a new SD card from a seller on ebay with up to date maps and speed cameras for £20. I guess it's cracked as there's some sort of copy protection on these things, but I don't care!

The VTR+ Nav seems to have identical looking radio/satnav units that are made by two different manufacturers. The latter ones are better, the earlier ones (mine...) can't read MP3s from the SD card, nor can it display the trip computer on the screen and this will never be fixed even on the latest firmware. The manual reckons both these things should happen, but they don't. The later units are better, not sure what year the changeover was. It does have an external audio input in the glovebox, but I can't comprehend why they've provided two phono (L+R) inputs. The only equipment I have with those connectors plugs into the mains! Ok, not a huge deal, but a weird design decision. I've read that the models with a USB connector only function as an emulated CD changer. Six folders, files only numbered, no filename browsing. It does mercifully read MP3s off the CD, but that was the first CD I've had to burn for maybe 7 years. Not exactly cutting edge.

Not all models have rear parking sensors. It looks like mine does, but as I discovered, it doesn't. The models that do have a disable button on the left side of the radio, in the middle of the bank of three.

Unfortunately for me, mine had a bust aircon condensor, replaced under the seller's dubious 30 day warranty. I've also diagnosed a seized turbo (turbines were fine, the variable mechanism was seized solid). It's cost me about £700 to buy a replacement and have it fitted. It took the garage 12 hours to drop the subframe, deal with sheared bolts etc, luckily they quoted 5 before hand. Now that's fixed, I've discovered the clutch is weak on 90k miles, so I'm facing several hundred more pounds.

So, I'm still yet to form a decisive opinion. I'd say opt for the tourer, the saloon looks lovely but not very practical (if I get a dog soon, I'll have to get rid of this thing). Creaks, rattles and my own terribly bad luck aside, it does seem a good car, just let down by some minor yet annoying points.

[vborovic]

The fixed steering wheel centre is fantastic (how does it work?!) but it vibrates, I'm yet to sort that.

To put it in simple terms, they created an outer shell which holds the airbag and the wheel buttons (and the plastic masking obviously), while the steering wheel is fixed in place in between that, making in able to freely spin around, while the outer shell is fixed. Simple trick actually, especially noticeable if you dismantle it 2-3 times ...

Updates are outrageously priced but I got a new SD card from a seller on ebay with up to date maps and speed cameras for £20. I guess it's cracked as there's some sort of copy protection on these things, but I don't care!

The maps can be updated for free, if you know where to look ...

The VTR+ Nav seems to have identical looking radio/satnav units that are made by two different manufacturers. The latter ones are better, the earlier ones (mine...) can't read MP3s from the SD card, nor can it display the trip computer on the screen and this will never be fixed even on the latest firmware. The manual reckons both these things should happen, but they don't.

You're talking about the myWay [RNEG] (SD card in front), manufactured by Harman Becker & the eMyWay [RT6], manufactured by Magneti Marelli (no SD in front). The RNEG was never designed to read anything other than the maps from the card, the trip computer can be conigured to show up by using Lexia/DiagBox (it's not standard on CItroens, it is on the Peugeots). Forget the manual.

The later units are better, not sure what year the changeover was. It does have an external audio input in the glovebox, but I can't comprehend why they've provided two phono (L+R) inputs. The only equipment I have with those connectors plugs into the mains! Ok, not a huge deal, but a weird design decision.

Because the 3D Navidrive (2-DIN) navigation units have the video input as well, and using the same glove box connectors, they have a 3RCA component video+audio input solution (pretty much standard for a pre-HDMI era). They just made the audio RCA for the other units, to save on costs.

I've read that the models with a USB connector only function as an emulated CD changer. Six folders, files only numbered, no filename browsing. It does mercifully read MP3s off the CD, but that was the first CD I've had to burn for maybe 7 years. Not exactly cutting edge.

Not quite, you're talking about how the USB BOX (external unit) functions ... the RT6 can grab up to 600-800 MP3s, from many folders, with full ID3 tags (using iPods, you can use the iPod structure: playlists, artists, etc ...)

Not all models have rear parking sensors. It looks like mine does, but as I discovered, it doesn't. The models that do have a disable button on the left side of the radio, in the middle of the bank of three.

There are combinations of none, rear only, and rear + front parking sensors, I don't know why this is a discovery.

[RustyUK]

To put it in simple terms, they created an outer shell which holds the airbag and the wheel buttons (and the plastic masking obviously), while the steering wheel is fixed in place in between that, making in able to freely spin around, while the outer shell is fixed. Simple trick actually, especially noticeable if you dismantle it 2-3 times ...

Hmm, I still can't quite get my head around it, but I'm sure it'll click when I come to fix the annoying rattle!

The maps can be updated for free, if you know where to look ...

I don't

You're talking about the myWay [RNEG] (SD card in front), manufactured by Harman Becker & the eMyWay [RT6], manufactured by Magneti Marelli (no SD in front).

Maybe, I thought from memory there was RNEG and RNEG2 (RT6 same thing?), which looks basically the same but not made by Harman.

The RNEG was never designed to read anything other than the maps from the card, the trip computer can be conigured to show up by using Lexia/DiagBox (it's not standard on Citroëns, it is on the Peugeots). Forget the manual.

Hmm, any tips on where to find that using Lexia? (no luck yet getting Diagbox working). I did spend some time looking as soon as I got the car home, but couldn't spot anything relevant.

Not quite, you're talking about how the USB BOX (external unit) functions ... the RT6 can grab up to 600-800 MP3s, from many folders, with full ID3 tags (using iPods, you can use the iPod structure: playlists, artists, etc ...)

Sorry yes, I meant USB fitted to the RNEG unit. Again, the useless manual suggests this may or may not be present, and the experiences of others is that even if fitted, it's not very useful. RNEG2/RT6 does seem the superior unit.

There are combinations of none, rear only, and rear + front parking sensors, I don't know why this is a discovery.

It was a disappointing discovery to me - the car was advertised and sold has having rear parking sensors, and certainly looked like it had. Alas, on a test drive, I didn't actually reverse the car.

One thing I should comment on about the saloon, it's impossible to see anything of the boot whatsoever when reversing, so sensors would be more than a fancy luxury.