Xantia S1 clutch

[Old-Guy]

On the way back from GSF Gloucester this afternoon, the clutch cable failed as I went to change up into 5th - fortunately on an open stretch of the A38, and I was able to get within a mile of home in 4th before deciding that going any further into suburbia wasn't respomsible. The timing couldn't be worse: I need transport available 24/7 for the next 2-3 weeks and have a 50 mile round trip every evening. Having got the old girl back to base, I didn't have time to do more than order a new cable and clip from GSF (not in stock, delivery Monday) before grabbing something to eat, bath, change and tear off out. Fortunately, the good friend who kindly towed me home, has lent me his little Peugeot runabout for the week-end. I've just got home. I should be thankful it happened when and where it did, rather than in the middle of this evening rush-hour traffic.

There was a small bang, the pedal hit the floor and something landed on the mat (later found to be a spring steel clip), so I deduce it's a matter of the infamous plastic clip failing. I remember reading that changing the cable (clip) is a right pig - I'll search for the relevant posts in the morning. I also seem to remember that there's a good reason (beyond old age) why the clip fails but I can't remember what.

So, should I replace just the clip? Or the cable as well to prevent a repeat in the near future? I'm aware that if it's time to replace the clutch, it's wise to change the nylon pivot bushes and the thrust bearing as well. It would have to be done professionally, so I need to decide what to do before Monday morning.

Advice please gurus.

[Peter.N.]

Not had a Xantia but have had a lot of XMs. On those you need to increase the pedal pressure as the clutch wears but they are all pretty heavy anyway. I have only had one cable fail so generally they seem to be up to it. It is a pig of a job though, you will just have to grit your teeth and get on with it. Those who have owned Xantia's will probably be able to give you some tips.

Peter

[Xantidote]

Sorry Old Guy, I've only just seen your post as been away, so maybe too late to help.

My clip failed the once, with a loud bang, and I'd been thinking that the clutch was becoming rather heavy. I fitted new clip (there's a plastic and a metal bit) plus a new cable, and problem solved.

Peter's right that clutches get heavier as they wear, but I wouldn't go to the trouble of replacing a clutch until I knew that new clip & cable didn't improve matters.

[citroenxm]

Was the remains of the old clip black??? If so thats good going for an original clip

New ones are white and slightly more meaty er ... and stronger.

The job. Thats a very different story. You need to remove the clutch pedal. If the clip has not been done before then you need a 13mm socket and spanner. Lie on your back with yur head up the footwell and undo the clutch pedal pivot bolt.. then cut the bolt head off. this is because in construction citroen put the bolt in brake pedal side in and nut on the heater side so you cant get the bolt out. Obtain a new 13mm head bolt and lock thread nut.. use it to re fit the pedal..

Remove the bolt, remove the pedal.. watch for the pedal assist spring. fit the new clip on and then balance the metal clip on the edge of the plastic clip put the pedal in place in the car... now the tricky bit.. push the clutch cable back in at the gearbox end and align the clip over the end in the foot well. An assistant can be a big help.. pull the pedal up and then with prehaps a long screw driver knock the metal c clip over the end!

If your S1 is a later P or R reg model the clutch pedal assitant spring is a great helper here as they will actually hold the pedal in the up position for you.. however if its the older circular spring good luck refitting it when putting the pedal in place

It all sounds a ok job. What makes it a pig is the place its on. There is just no to very little space. Ive done a fair few now

Make sure the new bolt is not too long as to foul the side of the brake pedal when its in place.

[Old-Guy]

Paul you're a life-saver - the comprehensive illustrated guide is no longer available as the andyspares site is now defunct. Does anyone have a copy that could be posted on the Common Problems & Fixes Archive?

I (sorry, WE) have had the 'Green Lady' from age 11 with only 67,000 miles and nothing bar an annual service and pads had ever been done (11-year old spheres ). I've never had to touch the clutch until now, so I assume it's as it left the factory.

New cable and clip not available until this morning. Do I remember reading that it's removing the driver's seat?

[citroenxm]

I can do them without removing the seat.. but it makes lieing down easyer then up to you..

[Old-Guy]

I'm still reasonably slim and agile, so I'll try without removing the seat, but keep it in mind.

[Xantidote]

All I would add is that I managed to co-erce/persuade the original bolt to come out in one piece, albeit with a little leverage and force, so avoided cutting the head off. Thus able to re-use the bolt, replacing it the other way around.

I managed the job without removing the seat - just have to be a contortionist with a good back, used to working upside down

[elma]

Its worth removing in my opinion. Once you get started you won't want to. Once you finish you'll wish you did.

[RichardW]

Appears to be 8 years since I did it: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=21201" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; still got the mental scars....

Malcolm reckoned you could get away with not sawing the bolt off it you twisted the pedal a bit, and levered the edge of the pedal bracket to get enough clearance for the bolt. Fortunately I never got to try again

[Old-Guy]

I couldn't find your original post Richard, thanks for the link. I worked it out for myself eventually. I looked at the possibility of forcing the bolt out but was afraid I might cause permanent damage leading to constant problems.

Clip kit (plastic plus steel) was about £7 (delivered) from GSF.

Paul, black clip, clutch and cable all as factory fitted! Over 19 years - not bad! Another small part of the car that is no longer 'original'. Ever since we've had the car I've been wondering how much longer the clutch will last. Clutch operation as smooth as ever so I've put the breakage down to senile plastic (and poor design) plus driving in Toe-tectors with sole plates.

service.citroen list the bolt as "M8 x 125 70" meaning M8 with 1.25 pitch thread (standard) 70 mm long. The standard 70mm bolt just fouls the brake pedal (my bins of bolts provided a new one exactly the right length, you need 60mm and a thinnish rather than a standard fat lock nut. (another 1/2 hours spent finding the right thing).

I have fitted the clip on upside down - it'll just have to stay like that for a while as I need the car every evening at the moment. Deep 13mm socket for the nut and a rachet spanner on the bolt head. Little strip of gaffer tape to hold the nut in a ring spanner. Didn't have any problem with the spring, popped in place at the second attempt. NB the cranked spring arm goes over the bracket, the straight on on the pedal!

Instead of using a hacksaw blade (slow hard work) use a (n oscillating) multi-cutter with a metal cutting blade. These blades are only meant for cutting thin section stuff, but at around £5 for a new one, I was prepared to sacrifice one if it did the job. About 1 minute later off dropped the bolt head! O.K., the blade now has a blunt section in the middle, but the saving in time and real physical pain...

LED work lamps are now so cheap and provide so much light. I bought 4 last Christmas (sort of sideways pen torches branded Lighthouse) £5.99 from our local independent hardware shop. 1 each for the 4 men (me included) in the family as "stocking fillers". Daughter was miffed she didn't get one, so I had to buy her one too! A set of decent AAA rechargeables cost more than the torch, but last about 5 hours - enough for all day if it's turned off when not needed. The ideal light would be a very flat LED headlamp.

Other than that it's just horribly awkward. I reckon without interuptions, but with instructions it would take at least a couple of hours the first time.

[citroenxm]

Good work guy!!

I forgot about the "tape on the back of the spanner to hold the nut" at the time of writing but i wrote mine at first thing on my phone still in bed just woke up and remembered about it after but didnt get back to putting it in

Sounds like you worked it out.. if the black clip has only just broke then theres years in the white one.. you might of noticed it a bit more meatier and stronger!

[Old-Guy]

Spoke too soon!

A mile from home this evening clutch went to the floor again. Managed to ear'ole her back home stuck in 4th again. Managed to pop it into neutral but the synchro isn't good enough to do clutchless changes (or I've lost the knack).

So either the release arm bushes or shot or, more likely, I've cocked up. Perhaps my 'bright idea' of fitting the spring clip upside down is the cause. Please, please the spring clip has just jumped off . Even if the new plastic is trashed, they're not expensive. The strange thing is the clutch isn't heavy nor is there any detectable binding or catching.

Have to be up very early to have a look and if possible re-fit the clip. Little chance of getting a new one before tomorrow afternoon.

[CitroJim]

How heavy was the clutch before it went Guy?

[RichardW]

I think if you fit it the wrong way round the spring catches on the pedal or bracket and breaks it in short order. At least you won't have to cut the bolt this time....