C5 X7 Air con repair

[Filberton]

The air con on my 2008 C5 X7 has just packed up. I got someone to recharge it and compressor kicked in and system worked fine (ice cold air for a bit) but all gas lost again within 24 hours so I have a significant leak. The compressor is ok (or seems so) so I suspect a) hole in the condenser or b) hole in evaporator or c) pipe damage or d) o-ring failure.

I suspect a) most likely or possibly the condenser or b) the evaporator - only say that as I can smell the recharge gas in the car.
The condenser and evaporator units are reasonably priced (and new drier of course) on the internet or to my garage but does anyone know how long it takes to replace either of these or what is involved?

Does anyone have any Service Box information or similar guidance they can share?

I will probably let my (non-franchise) garage do the final replacement, vacuum test and recharge but anything I can do myself I'd like to. If necessary my garage will test and prove fault then if necessary let me take the car back to do some of the work. (that is the benefit of a good non-franchise team )

any help or advice appreciated.

Mike

[vborovic]

What exactly do you need from the service documentation? As for finding the exact leak, it shouldn't be too hard if you color the gas, and check it with the UV lamp (I'm guessing most air con service workshops should be able to do that nowadays, no?)

[Filberton]

Thanks for the quick response. Appreciated.

My local did try a colour dye and look with UV light but saw nothing so now they will have to start dismantling. bits.

My and their thought is they will start with the condenser at front so I'm hoping to an get an idea of what they/I might have to do to get to the condenser. i.e. is it a bumper off job and how easy is that (I did my old C5 Mk 1 but the X7 has a bit more in the way of techy bits what with headlamp washers, parking sensors, lights etc. so hoping to find out how easy it is. (and how much I can do if necessary). Concerned on how easy it is to damage something.

Thinking of the worst, if they still find no leak and we move to the evaporator then again, how easy to get to to remove? I've heard horror stories of what it takes to get to the matrix and if it starts to get to a full dashboard removal and £££ I need to consider if there may be a time I settle for no A/C.

Apparently if the dye does not show, there are workshops that can apparently use a sniffer??? Have you heard of that??

If I can get Service Box the guidance it will give and idea of what is involved.

(I have a fleabay Service Box/Sedre disc set but though mine gives parts and service times it seems to have some data missing and limited pdfs of sequencing of repairs, and wouldn't you know it, some of the missing files are the a/c. )

Any help or thoughts appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

[RichardW]

There's a common failure on a pipe on the early X7s eg http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=39844" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


If it's the condenser, then I expect it will be removed by first removing the radiator, then pulling it out the back. Looks like the bottom connection faces forwards though, so might be a right pain to get off. No doubt the evaporator will require removal of the dash, and dismantling the heater box which will be a mare, so lets hope it's not that!

[DickieG]

I've changed the condenser on mine, you don't need to remove the bumper as you can access it from above, split the plastic shield next to the bonnet slam panel from the grille/bumper.

The leak may well be from the larger of the two pipes which connect onto the compressor and in particular under the braided section which pretty much hides any traces of dye leaking out.

It'd be rather unusual for a condenser thats losing the charge of gas over 24 hours not to show a trace of dye, with leaks that severe you can normally hear them just like a punctured tyre and see a patch of oil on the condenser. I take it that when the tech was looking for leaking dye he wore the yellow tinted glasses? With some dyes the glasses aren't necessary whereas with others you really can't see the dye at all.

Yes there are electronic leak detectors called "Sniffers", however they can be a little hit and miss.

If you're anywhere near the west of the M25 I'll have a look at it for you as I have all of the necessary tools to detect leaks as well as the A/C recharge equipment.

[Stickyfinger]

Personally, I would have it Dye tested again BEFORE stripping....you will never find the problem if you take it apart....testing each part on its own is not cheap as you have to seal them well....

[vborovic]

@ Filberton - A sniffer is a device that looks like this, more or less:



It could be useful but like DickieG said, it's not that precise in some cases. The UV gas leak detection should still be your best bet to figure out where the leak(s) are ... On my previous Xsara, the full gas leakage was competed within one week, and the guy managed to find the leak with this method, if in your case the leak has the 24 hour max for the gas to completely run out of the system, I can't believe it can't be seen with gas coloring ...

[SaabC5]

I have the same problem. Put mine in for a recharge knowing there's a hot spell coming up and its been diagnosed with a hole in the larger bore pipe going to the condenser.

[RichardW]

Price for the pipe varies depending on which engine fitted, but most are in £70-£80 range.

[Filberton]

Thanks guys, that is really great help and cheers me up no end, especially if the pipe at the compressor is the problem.
Even if it is the condenser then if it will come out the top and back that will be easier and save the £££
(forgot to say it is a 2.0 HDI Exclusive on manual box but if all pipes are similar price then not too bad.)

Thanks for the offer DickieG, unfortunately I'm North of the Midlands so over 150 miles away but I'll bear you in mind if next steps fail if that is ok?

Yes, the guy who had a first look did use the yellow glasses but was limited where he could look, peering through the front grill and down the hole behind the bonnet catch. If, as you say, the top shield can be removed he may get a better look. Also, I believe he kept the engine running so would not have heard the hiss of a leak. (never thought of that one and switching off. - but I forgot to say, he did it for free so I mustn't criticise him too much. With your suggestions it will now be worth giving him a few sovs to look a bit deeper.

I'll print of the other message and advise them where to look then hopefully I can look forward to a Cool Summer (or should that be a hot summer and cool car

Frustrating all this, but all in all I would still rate this as the best model of C5 I've had or driven and with 120k miles with hardly a hiccup I can't complain. (and that includes a forray in the DS5 )

thanks folks

Mike

[vborovic]

Also, I believe he kept the engine running so would not have heard the hiss of a leak.

That's exactly where the sniffer comes in handy ...

[DickieG]

Also, I believe he kept the engine running so would not have heard the hiss of a leak.

That's exactly where the sniffer comes in handy ...

Not really as the cooling fan blows the escaping gas everywhere and dilutes the strength of the gas from the leak point.

If there's a significant leak from the condensor you can often hear the leak with the engine off as the condenser is under pressure without the compressor running, provided of course there's gas or nitrogen in the system.

Re the pipe from the compressor you'll need to use a sharp knife to split gauze covering length ways, I found that the covering hides just about all traces of escaping dye. FYI the newer version of that pipe doesn't have a covering so I wouldn't concern yourself about damaging the cover.

[vborovic]

We've already concluded that that's not a precise instrument, but at least its "nose" can "hear" the gas hissing (in the engine running scenario) ... where, that's another issue ... ...

[DickieG]

We've already concluded that that's not a precise instrument, but at least its "nose" can "hear" the gas hissing (in the engine running scenario) ... where, that's another issue ... ...

Well they are precise enough to the point that having adjusted it's sensitivity you need to be almost touching the leak point for the sniffer to smell the gas.

Adjusting the sensitivity of a sniffer is akin to playing with the squelch knob on an old radio

[vborovic]

Well, you need to have something to do once you're looking under the bonnet anyways ...