C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

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soops
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C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by soops »

Hi,

I have done a search and can't pin down a reply to what I'm after.

I have recently scrapped my old faithful of 11 years, a 2.0 hdi C5 and now have a 05 plate 1.6hdi.

I had done some homework and bought one with 91k miles, full stamps and regular 12k oil changes(I will be doing them at 6k from now on). Onto the prob.

I took it to have the timing belt done and as the service light was on and 'risk of particle filter blocking' asked them to put it on the computer just to check what it was. Afterwards they said there was a number of codes that cleared but one that didn't indicated a sensor on the fuel neck. Anyway, when I picked the car up he noted how it seemed to be down on power. Now I had thought it was a bit sluggish but just thought it was me going from the 2l down to the 1.6 and there being a torque difference. As I had other concerns and nothing came up on the computer I knew if I asked them to investigate it could turn out pricey so I left it and decided to do some research.

It does seem a little greedy, seems to drink a bit more than my old 2.0. There if you keep it over 2k revs it is happy to go up any hill, but under 2k it is very flat. Initial thought was a dirty MAF and sticky EGR valve, MAF has been cleaned, EGR hasn't yet(at tickover it drops to 1k then over next 2-3 seconds the needle drops to it's resting point at just under the 1k mark, that makes me wonder about sticky EGR)

So step one was to see about the vacuum doo-hickey for the turbo. Got my boy to sit in the car and rev it and found that the actuator wasn't moving through the revs. Score.

Pulled off the vac pipe, connected a pipe to it and sucked and the actuator moved. Again, score.

Put finger over vac pipe and there was no suction at all, so I thought that would be it as I had read about these pipes leaking and cracking.

Now, say it isn't the pipe. I have been reading and on some places it says there are more than one pressure solenoids, a master one and a couple that feed off that and one of these is the pressure solenoid for the turbo actuator.

Is this correct and if so does anyone have pictures of where they all are and is there an order in which they can be tested to find out which has gone and so I buy the one that has died and just guessing(funds are tight).

Any ideas?

*Things I have done since having the car two months ago.
Replace washers and clean bore on a chuffing injector bore
Oil was black upon buying. Dropped oil and filter, flushed and put in cheap oil. Ran it until red hot then drained and changed oil + filter again
Checked banjo union filter and it was spotless.
Due to 'risk of particle filter' warning, removed and jet washed FAP, runs smoother but warning still upon starting
MAF cleaned*
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by Stickyfinger »

but one that didn't indicated a sensor on the fuel neck
That may be the sensor that detects you filling it up (sensor by magnets in the fuel cap)...it then fires the Eolys tank pump which injects the liquid for the Particulate Filter operation.
It [may] be complaining about that....mine did, had to replace it to clear the fault which kept coming back.
Also check your Eolys levels via Lexia and test fire the pump to check.
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by RichardW »

There's only one solenoid valve for the turbo seemingly - the EGR valve on this engine is electric. However, that may not be the cause at all, and you need to get it back on the diag computer and see what is going on, by looking at the live data rather than just the fault codes. If the ECU has decided it wants no boost, then you won't get any, regardless of whether the solenoid is good or not!! It may be that whatever is upsetting it about the DPF is also causing limp mode which prevents any boost developing. There are a number of members with a Lexia kit, one may be near enough to help you, or you can buy the kit for not much more than one code read at a garage.... list of owners here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 19&t=29178" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by citroenxm »

Should of repaired and kept the 2.0 hdi .. a far less troublesome engine.. :wink:
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by soops »

Thanks for the replies lads.

I don't think I'm in limp mode, it revs freely enough (albeit with the lack of oomph).

When they put it on the 'puter at the time I had the timing belt done, he wrote down some things what he found and cleared

'Turbo pressure electro-valve control flow too low'
'Turbo pressure signal short to circuit'
'EGR throttle position copy signal short circuit'
'EGR motorised throttle unit open circuit'

These were ones that were all able to be cleared and didn't pop up on restarting.

The one that didn't clear and seems to be the cause of the service light staying on is 'additive system fuel filler cap sensor signal' which I can live without for now.

The EGR ones I was thinking about and after reading about I was hoping was that the EGR valve could be gummed up and need cleaning, as it isn't able to move as freely as it's servo likes that's what is causing that reading.

The ones about the turbo pressure is I'm assuming, as I have no vacuum at the pipe that goes to the turbo actuator, that the vacuum solenoid is kaput.

Whereabouts is it located as I have tried following the pipe and it gets lost, is it sited at the back near the EGR valve?

Also any idea how much they are from the main stealer or can I safely get one from ebay?
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by Stickyfinger »

The one that didn't clear and seems to be the cause of the service light staying on is 'additive system fuel filler cap sensor signal' which I can live without for now.
So Eolys will be NOT be deployed and the PF will block again quickly, easy fix and the part is about a tenner.

I think it may do other things as well because the whole regen/DPF system is in "failed" state without it.
Do you have the original filler cap on, >?? are the magnets still in it ?
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by soops »

Hiya.

just been out and traced back the vac pipe to where the solenoid is (what a place to put it, right back there on the opposite side of the engine to the turbo!). Pulled the pipe off and the elbow was all soft and pulled away from the pipe really easily, so I thought that was the prob as it would be losing vac pressure there. Put the end from the actuator on the end that goes to the solenoid and the soft one I put on the actuator with a couple of small zip ties to make it snug.

Started it and still no actuator valve moving so I guess the solenoid is kaput.

Have just checked the filler cap, it is the original one and has both magnets still in place. Do you have a link to a decent vendor that sells the filler neck sensor? I guess you access it by removing the bootliner on the drivers side and it's there, or do you have to go up from under the wheelarch?

Where do you guys get your parts if you avoid the main stealers?
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by Stickyfinger »

Citroen main dealer for sensors and such, rarely are after market goods up to quality (ebay at times, but check its original if an expensive part)...MAF sensors are a prime example.

The Part itself is cheap from Citroen, I think I paid less than a tenner.

Access can be a pig as it goes via and around the fuel tank etc. I ended up with a bent coat-hanger, tape and string, then made a shaped point over the connecter with tape with the string tied to that, then gentle fed/pulled it up thru. Others drop the tank a bit, some do it with magic. Some cut and join...I wouldn't personally but with a good soldered joint why not I suppose.

I needed Arch liner off, I jacked the back end, supported WITH STANDS...and removed wheel, inside I took out the seat base as well.
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by RichardW »

The switch is cheap:


00006554GS SWITCH 3.63 GBP 4.36 GBP 4.36 GBP

The connecting harness less so....

00006534HY HARNESS 60.81 GBP 72.97 GBP 72.97 GBP

or

00006534NR HARNESS 48.69 GBP 58.43 GBP 58.43 GBP


Two solenoids for the turbo, one not bad, the other expensive...


0000037035 VAC SOLENOID 31.92 GBP 38.30 GBP 38.30 GBP

9652997580 VAC SOLENOID 76.94 GBP 92.33 GBP 92.33 GBP

If you post up the VIN we can check which is fitted. However, I wouldn't go spending money on that (esp if it's the dear one!) till it has been on the diag again, and you've checked that it is requesting boost, and just not getting it, rather than no request....
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by soops »

Hi,

thanks again for the help lads.

Richard, will reg number suffice instead of vin? AV54 SUY.

If when it was on the diag it was coming back as 'turbo pressure signal short to circuit' wouldn't that indicate it was trying to send boost signals to the unit and then finding it to be unresponsive and/or failed? When on the car today and using a mirror to find the blasted thing when tracing the pipe, I don't know if it helps ID it but the pressure solenoid looked to be a terracotta colour not black as I was expecting. Does that help anymore with which one it is?

Thanks
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

The VIN gives good access to the Citroen databases. It can be found stamped into the bonnet lip on the wing, sometimes it is viewed through a little window on the lower left of the windscreen, or on the V5 paperwork,.
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by soops »

Have ordered a vac solenoid from my local main stealers. Would have to be the expensive one, £92 inc vat!

Asked him to price me up an egr valve as well, £330 plus vat! I think I will be taking it off and seeing if it's blocked up first and causing the electro valve to act irregularly.

Also a couple of times I've noticed the odd damp patch when parking up but not investigated it until today. From where it is where I park I surmised it was coming from amidships. Pulled up the seat swab and took off the fuel pump cover. Diesel everywhere. The locking ring was down tight but I could lift and drop the lift pump about 3-4mm. After much fiddling I have managed to remove and clean it, and have battened it down tight so theres no movement. The locking ring looks pretty beat up so I might source another one and a new gasket. Some people are just bodgers!
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by Stickyfinger »

Also, with the C5.....NEVER fill it up past the FIRST clic of the pump however much you are temped to round it up....same can happen
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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by daviemck2006 »

I always just stop at the first click now, if I ever fill it. I started doing that with the first c5 I had as i was advised that by a citroen garage where I got some work done.

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Re: C5 1.6hdi turbo vac problem. Where to start looking?

Post by myglaren »

I've always filled mine to the brim, no room for another teaspoonful. Both C5s.
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