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....then you won't feel so bad about Xantia problems [:D][;)]
Nick
Xantia, worse car ever?
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VisaGTi16v
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by VisaGTi16v</i>
Starting to get bored with my zx now due to constant problems but no doubt I will buy another Citroen to replace it
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Is that the 16V? What problems are you having with it?
Starting to get bored with my zx now due to constant problems but no doubt I will buy another Citroen to replace it
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Is that the 16V? What problems are you having with it?
I think its only fairly recently that the Xantia has started to get a bad reputation, probably as many of them are getting on a bit and components are beginning to pack up etc.
They were a well regarded car in the 90's, with many car magazines recommending them as a good secondhand buy too.
Much the same thing happened with the BX, it went from being virtually the number one recommended diesel car throughout the 1980's, to in 1995 appearing in a list (in Autocar,I think) of 'Top ten cars not to touch with a bargepole'!
Nick
They were a well regarded car in the 90's, with many car magazines recommending them as a good secondhand buy too.
Much the same thing happened with the BX, it went from being virtually the number one recommended diesel car throughout the 1980's, to in 1995 appearing in a list (in Autocar,I think) of 'Top ten cars not to touch with a bargepole'!
Nick
I constantly sit in amazement at these posts that say these things.
We have a different mentality to cars here than you do over there, I understand Denmark is in the same boat for the same reasons.
I own a BX 16V that has a current value of around A$10,000. A reasonably respectable condition & priced car say a TZi/Tri would pull around $5000 - $8000 and I spoke to a guy today who was inspecting a Tri wagon with almost 300K klms on the clock for almost $5000.
Xantias will cost from $8000 for a high mileage and average condition car up to around $26,000 for a good example. Compare them with your prices and you see the difference; over there, we commonly see the statement made "it'll cost 500 to fix it but that's more than it's worth, so I'll spend 1000 and buy another later model one." Over here, you fix it & drive it a few more years whereas over there the temptation to just toss it out is constantly there due to the cheapness of later replacements. My daily drive car ia a 1979 CX 2400 C-matic. Now, talk to the older brigade of mechanics and watch them cringe in horror at that prospect. Ad to that, the fact I'm almost 4 hours away from the nearest Citroen repairer and there's 3 other CXs in town & I own 2 of them. Why do I drive a CX? Because it is solid long wearing reliable transport & more importantly, it's easy to fix if anything does go wrong.
Why is it this way? Because I regularly service the car; don't get me wrong, I don't molly coddle it by any means, but it gets regular fluid changes and <b>if something rattles, it gets fixed before it falls off & not after</b>
....and therein lies the difference. Cheap cars, lack of garage space and repairers who can talk a job up faster than you can say 'conman' and you have the recipe for a neglected car and a lot of owners who really don't give a hoot because the car is considered a cheap consumeable & when it blows up, it's cheaper to toss it & replace with another than to service & maintain it.
You talk about hydraulic problems; I once had a guy ask how to do a LHM change. I told him, he did it & then posted a thanks saying that it had all gone well and that he hoped to get another 190,000 MILES out of this lot of LHM as he had out of the lot he'd just changed. It is recommended that LHM be changed every 3 years or 36,000 miles at the most.
Does that answer the question about the ongoing problems?
I have bought and worked on a couple of cars imported from your side & in all honesty, it's no wonder some of those cars have the problems that they do.[:0][:0][:0]
Alan S [;)]
We have a different mentality to cars here than you do over there, I understand Denmark is in the same boat for the same reasons.
I own a BX 16V that has a current value of around A$10,000. A reasonably respectable condition & priced car say a TZi/Tri would pull around $5000 - $8000 and I spoke to a guy today who was inspecting a Tri wagon with almost 300K klms on the clock for almost $5000.
Xantias will cost from $8000 for a high mileage and average condition car up to around $26,000 for a good example. Compare them with your prices and you see the difference; over there, we commonly see the statement made "it'll cost 500 to fix it but that's more than it's worth, so I'll spend 1000 and buy another later model one." Over here, you fix it & drive it a few more years whereas over there the temptation to just toss it out is constantly there due to the cheapness of later replacements. My daily drive car ia a 1979 CX 2400 C-matic. Now, talk to the older brigade of mechanics and watch them cringe in horror at that prospect. Ad to that, the fact I'm almost 4 hours away from the nearest Citroen repairer and there's 3 other CXs in town & I own 2 of them. Why do I drive a CX? Because it is solid long wearing reliable transport & more importantly, it's easy to fix if anything does go wrong.
Why is it this way? Because I regularly service the car; don't get me wrong, I don't molly coddle it by any means, but it gets regular fluid changes and <b>if something rattles, it gets fixed before it falls off & not after</b>
....and therein lies the difference. Cheap cars, lack of garage space and repairers who can talk a job up faster than you can say 'conman' and you have the recipe for a neglected car and a lot of owners who really don't give a hoot because the car is considered a cheap consumeable & when it blows up, it's cheaper to toss it & replace with another than to service & maintain it.
You talk about hydraulic problems; I once had a guy ask how to do a LHM change. I told him, he did it & then posted a thanks saying that it had all gone well and that he hoped to get another 190,000 MILES out of this lot of LHM as he had out of the lot he'd just changed. It is recommended that LHM be changed every 3 years or 36,000 miles at the most.
Does that answer the question about the ongoing problems?
I have bought and worked on a couple of cars imported from your side & in all honesty, it's no wonder some of those cars have the problems that they do.[:0][:0][:0]
Alan S [;)]
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Homer
- Posts: 1503
- Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 10:52
- Location: Yorkshire
- My Cars: Current:
Volvo V60 D4 180
Previous:
BX16RS (two of),
BX19TZI,
Xantia 2.0i saloon,
Xantia 2.0 Exclusive CT turbo Break,
Peugeot 807 2.0 HDi 110,
Renault Grand Scenic, 2.0 diesel (150bhp)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi 160 which put me off French cars possibly forever - x 16
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by taipan</i>
I think people were always anti BX because of the hydraulic system. I'd have to admit after a certain age they did become a pain. When you see "Citroen suspension specialist" in your local paper, you know they have becaome enough of a pain to warrant specialists, and the fact that thier is enough work to sustain such businesses, well....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There are many Citroen specialists because your average mechanic is scared of something new. And if they bothered to find out they would find it isn't so complicated after all. That and some have found it's a nice earner keeping the myth going.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My Father-in-law ( a life long mechanic/damage repairer)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Who knows little about Citroens from your next comments.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> always said that you'll see them (BXs) in a breakers yard cos of a front suspension fault. Whereas a set of new struts would sort out most other cars.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> A new set of suspension struts/dampers/springs would cost you an arm, a leg and a few major organs on 'most other cars', not to mention the equipment you need to do the job safely. The most a well cared for BX ever needs is a set of spheres for £50 and 10 mins DIY. Even if a strut needs replacing you aren't worrying about compressing nasty steel springs.[B)]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I had a low mileage (29K) one Doctor owner BX. Loved it. But even that needed new spheres.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> £50, what's that, the price of a tyre? And since when did Doctors know anything about car maintenance? He probably had it serviced at the Citroen dealership.[:0][B)][}:)][:p]
I think people were always anti BX because of the hydraulic system. I'd have to admit after a certain age they did become a pain. When you see "Citroen suspension specialist" in your local paper, you know they have becaome enough of a pain to warrant specialists, and the fact that thier is enough work to sustain such businesses, well....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
There are many Citroen specialists because your average mechanic is scared of something new. And if they bothered to find out they would find it isn't so complicated after all. That and some have found it's a nice earner keeping the myth going.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">My Father-in-law ( a life long mechanic/damage repairer)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Who knows little about Citroens from your next comments.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> always said that you'll see them (BXs) in a breakers yard cos of a front suspension fault. Whereas a set of new struts would sort out most other cars.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> A new set of suspension struts/dampers/springs would cost you an arm, a leg and a few major organs on 'most other cars', not to mention the equipment you need to do the job safely. The most a well cared for BX ever needs is a set of spheres for £50 and 10 mins DIY. Even if a strut needs replacing you aren't worrying about compressing nasty steel springs.[B)]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I had a low mileage (29K) one Doctor owner BX. Loved it. But even that needed new spheres.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> £50, what's that, the price of a tyre? And since when did Doctors know anything about car maintenance? He probably had it serviced at the Citroen dealership.[:0][B)][}:)][:p]
Anyone living in the UK may remember a program on Channel 4 a few years ago about selling used cars, I can't remember what it was called, but it was presented by the same two guys that were on 'Driven'?
Each week they followed someone trying to sell a car privately, giving advice etc. Once they featured a women trying to sell a very clean and tidy '87 BX 19TRS, it failed its MOT and numerous minor faults & they basically came to the conclusion it wasn't worth fixing, and at the end of the show it was driven to a breakers to be scrapped.
I reckoned at the time, that the faults would have taken all of about 2 hours diy labour and around £50 of parts to fix, but they scrapped the car.
The owner had previously had the clutch cable replaced by a garage, and then she found "It won't into gear properly now, so I'm going to sell or scrap it" !
How about taking it back, and telling them to adjust the ******* cable properly then ??! [:(!]
Each week they followed someone trying to sell a car privately, giving advice etc. Once they featured a women trying to sell a very clean and tidy '87 BX 19TRS, it failed its MOT and numerous minor faults & they basically came to the conclusion it wasn't worth fixing, and at the end of the show it was driven to a breakers to be scrapped.
I reckoned at the time, that the faults would have taken all of about 2 hours diy labour and around £50 of parts to fix, but they scrapped the car.
The owner had previously had the clutch cable replaced by a garage, and then she found "It won't into gear properly now, so I'm going to sell or scrap it" !
How about taking it back, and telling them to adjust the ******* cable properly then ??! [:(!]
The difference with Citroen suspension is that if you can't do your own work then its just not economical to repair the motor: this is why they are such a wonderful a second-hand buy. If the MOT man says your BX fails because a front strut leaks its going to cost you well over a ton just to buy the strut,as compared to the 30 to 40 quid a "normal" one for a "normal" car would cost, let alone the extra 50 or so needed to pay someone else to fit it[:0]!
This "someone else" would also claim to be a specialist[}:)] as the run of the mill garage will say "we dont work on those,mate"
I suspect most forum users could easily do the job, but if you know nothing of citraulics then be prepared to dig very deeply in your pocket, or more likely, send it to the breakers yard.
This "someone else" would also claim to be a specialist[}:)] as the run of the mill garage will say "we dont work on those,mate"
I suspect most forum users could easily do the job, but if you know nothing of citraulics then be prepared to dig very deeply in your pocket, or more likely, send it to the breakers yard.
[Quote/]
"Plus, springs are cheaper than spheres! ;^).............ever tried regassing a spring??[:D][:D]
I don't agree with you on the personal imports; Mein Goverrrnment has decreed that a car under 15 years of age can't be imported (that goes to 18 years soon) just for resale unless it has been "complied" to Australian design rules making it almost impossible to import anything European; grey imports of Jap stuff (Nissan Gt-Rs and the like) seem to get through due to a lot of standards being similar between here & Japan but apart from 2CVs, all the other cars brough in are done under the "Personal Import" system that decrees that you must have owned the car for over 12 months and used it in that time so as a result these cars are owners pride & Joys who have either been Aussied overseas for a few years coming home or people from the UK moving out here & bringing teh car with them.
A well maintained Citroen here is mind blowing to someone over there in it's condition and we have a lot of models you guys rarely see as daily drivers because of it.
CXs & GSs aren't uncommon & I recently saw a Traction that competed in a 1953 Around Australia Rally still with the same paint & stickes it had in '53 involved in a re-run of the event 50 years on. The driver also uses another Traction in hill climbs & sprints (very competitively).
I'm not going the big brag, but I honestly do believe that the maintenance, mythical problems & weather are more the blame than the vehicle.
Here's my daily driver; a 1979 CX Pallas c-matic. Still has original (but now well worn) paint.
Alan S
My 16V
My sons BX TZi
just as 3 examples.
"Plus, springs are cheaper than spheres! ;^).............ever tried regassing a spring??[:D][:D]
I don't agree with you on the personal imports; Mein Goverrrnment has decreed that a car under 15 years of age can't be imported (that goes to 18 years soon) just for resale unless it has been "complied" to Australian design rules making it almost impossible to import anything European; grey imports of Jap stuff (Nissan Gt-Rs and the like) seem to get through due to a lot of standards being similar between here & Japan but apart from 2CVs, all the other cars brough in are done under the "Personal Import" system that decrees that you must have owned the car for over 12 months and used it in that time so as a result these cars are owners pride & Joys who have either been Aussied overseas for a few years coming home or people from the UK moving out here & bringing teh car with them.
A well maintained Citroen here is mind blowing to someone over there in it's condition and we have a lot of models you guys rarely see as daily drivers because of it.
CXs & GSs aren't uncommon & I recently saw a Traction that competed in a 1953 Around Australia Rally still with the same paint & stickes it had in '53 involved in a re-run of the event 50 years on. The driver also uses another Traction in hill climbs & sprints (very competitively).
I'm not going the big brag, but I honestly do believe that the maintenance, mythical problems & weather are more the blame than the vehicle.
Here's my daily driver; a 1979 CX Pallas c-matic. Still has original (but now well worn) paint.
Alan S
My 16V
My sons BX TZi
just as 3 examples.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by taipan</i>
I think people were always anti BX because of the hydraulic system. I'd have to admit after a certain age they did become a pain. When you see "Citroen suspension specialist" in your local paper, you know they have becaome enough of a pain to warrant specialists, and the fact that thier is enough work to sustain such businesses, well....
Best
Dave
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't know about that. There are plenty of carburettor and EFI specialists around, and wheel alignment specialists, and auto transmission specialists but we don't start saying cars with carburettors or EFI or auto gearboxes are too complicated!
I reckon it's to do mainly with familiarity. Less common, more likely to be badly maintained, and everything tends to trouble if it's not maintained properly.
JohnW
I think people were always anti BX because of the hydraulic system. I'd have to admit after a certain age they did become a pain. When you see "Citroen suspension specialist" in your local paper, you know they have becaome enough of a pain to warrant specialists, and the fact that thier is enough work to sustain such businesses, well....
Best
Dave
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I don't know about that. There are plenty of carburettor and EFI specialists around, and wheel alignment specialists, and auto transmission specialists but we don't start saying cars with carburettors or EFI or auto gearboxes are too complicated!
I reckon it's to do mainly with familiarity. Less common, more likely to be badly maintained, and everything tends to trouble if it's not maintained properly.
JohnW
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by nick</i>
I think its only fairly recently that the Xantia has started to get a bad reputation, probably as many of them are getting on a bit and components are beginning to pack up etc.
They were a well regarded car in the 90's, with many car magazines recommending them as a good secondhand buy too.
Nick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sounds to me like neglected maintenance as they started being second cars or bought cheaply by people who didn't or couldn't afford to have them serviced regularly. Oddly, I've found little trouble with most cars that are serviced properly and treated properly.
JohnW
I think its only fairly recently that the Xantia has started to get a bad reputation, probably as many of them are getting on a bit and components are beginning to pack up etc.
They were a well regarded car in the 90's, with many car magazines recommending them as a good secondhand buy too.
Nick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sounds to me like neglected maintenance as they started being second cars or bought cheaply by people who didn't or couldn't afford to have them serviced regularly. Oddly, I've found little trouble with most cars that are serviced properly and treated properly.
JohnW
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Homer
- Posts: 1503
- Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 10:52
- Location: Yorkshire
- My Cars: Current:
Volvo V60 D4 180
Previous:
BX16RS (two of),
BX19TZI,
Xantia 2.0i saloon,
Xantia 2.0 Exclusive CT turbo Break,
Peugeot 807 2.0 HDi 110,
Renault Grand Scenic, 2.0 diesel (150bhp)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi 160 which put me off French cars possibly forever - x 16
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by taipan</i>
Plus, springs are cheaper than spheres! ;^)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
???
Either you have a very expensive source of spheres or a very cheap source of springs.
Last <b>pair</b> I bought cost around £50 inc VAT (about 8 months ago). Don't forget the sphere performs the functions of both spring and shock absorber. Shock absorbers are fairly unreliable and a common cause of MOT failure. The last set of <b>those</b> I had to deal with (on a Ford Escort) cost a heck of a lot more than a set of spheres and the job was beyond my DIY capabilites.
Most of the Citroen hydraulic reputation has grown up around myth.
Citroen electrics are another thing entirely.[:(]
Plus, springs are cheaper than spheres! ;^)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
???
Either you have a very expensive source of spheres or a very cheap source of springs.
Last <b>pair</b> I bought cost around £50 inc VAT (about 8 months ago). Don't forget the sphere performs the functions of both spring and shock absorber. Shock absorbers are fairly unreliable and a common cause of MOT failure. The last set of <b>those</b> I had to deal with (on a Ford Escort) cost a heck of a lot more than a set of spheres and the job was beyond my DIY capabilites.
Most of the Citroen hydraulic reputation has grown up around myth.
Citroen electrics are another thing entirely.[:(]
-
Homer
- Posts: 1503
- Joined: 26 Feb 2003, 10:52
- Location: Yorkshire
- My Cars: Current:
Volvo V60 D4 180
Previous:
BX16RS (two of),
BX19TZI,
Xantia 2.0i saloon,
Xantia 2.0 Exclusive CT turbo Break,
Peugeot 807 2.0 HDi 110,
Renault Grand Scenic, 2.0 diesel (150bhp)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi 160 which put me off French cars possibly forever - x 16
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Homer</i>
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alans</i>
just as 3 examples.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Stop making me want to emigrate![:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
42 predicted tommorrow not far from me; still wanna come??
Alan S [}:)]
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by alans</i>
just as 3 examples.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Stop making me want to emigrate![:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
42 predicted tommorrow not far from me; still wanna come??
Alan S [}:)]
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Jon
Big up to you Alan.
My recent post concerning my really very unreliable Berlingo at less than 2 years old, and my really very realiable ZX Td at coming on 11 years old confirms what you say. The new Car has undergone the so-called Dealer service schedule whereas the older ZX had the dealer service until one year old whereupon it passed into the hand of Louis Barbour, a well known independent specialist, and then after 70k miles myself. Its now on 133k miles.
Not really a surprise that Mrs W, Louisa and Amelia set out for W. London today for my niece's birthday party, and returned 10 mins later to do a car swap on the grounds that the Berlingo was "not running right" and then they swapped into that old ZX leaving me the Berlingo.
That Zx gets serviced every 6000 miles using a genuine diesel, oil and air filter, and gets its coolant changed every year. Funny how most things (apart from brakes, timing belt etc) are still original eh??
The old adage "look after it and it will look after you" still seems to apply.
My recent post concerning my really very unreliable Berlingo at less than 2 years old, and my really very realiable ZX Td at coming on 11 years old confirms what you say. The new Car has undergone the so-called Dealer service schedule whereas the older ZX had the dealer service until one year old whereupon it passed into the hand of Louis Barbour, a well known independent specialist, and then after 70k miles myself. Its now on 133k miles.
Not really a surprise that Mrs W, Louisa and Amelia set out for W. London today for my niece's birthday party, and returned 10 mins later to do a car swap on the grounds that the Berlingo was "not running right" and then they swapped into that old ZX leaving me the Berlingo.
That Zx gets serviced every 6000 miles using a genuine diesel, oil and air filter, and gets its coolant changed every year. Funny how most things (apart from brakes, timing belt etc) are still original eh??
The old adage "look after it and it will look after you" still seems to apply.