BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

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dizzyblond
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BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by dizzyblond »

Hi everyone and now for a insane story!!...

I have the most annoying and so far untraceable ‘noise’ in my 2007 (face lift model) Citroen C5 2.2Lt HDi Bi-Turbo 5 door hatch, with the 6 spd sports auto transmission...

OK here we go: the noise is a ‘rubbing’ sound that emanates from the front nearside (left hand side facing forward)...it cannot be heard from the back seats, it is not heard in the same intensity from the front passenger seat but is heard loud and clear from the drivers seat (right hand drive) and when it is at its loudest ie slowly going through a right hand bend, it can just be felt through the steering wheel...

It is a regular cyclic sound that is generated in sync with the road wheel rotation – any gear, any speed, it is totally in sync with the road wheel speed...it sounds like a worn out brake pad coming into contact with a slightly bent disc – but it’s not!!...

It is definitely originating from the front left side, this is shown when the car is turned into a right hand bend/corner when the noise will get markedly louder...conversely when turning into a left hander the noise will disappear, indicating that when the culprit is loaded up, then it becomes more ‘stressed’ or more in ‘contact’ hence the increase in noise level...

These are the areas that have been investigated:

1. All wheels and tyres have been rotated and/or changed...
2. All wheel bearings thoroughly checked...
3. All Brake discs and callipers/pads etc as above...
4. Left hand side drive shaft removed, CV joints split, repacked and replaced...
5. Transmission serviced, including fluid change...

No components were found to be faulty or had undue wear patterns, abrade marks or the like...

The only area that seems to remain a grey area is the transaxle/diff, which would rotate at road wheel speed, but the loading factor is a mystery??...

If anyone has even the remotest idea, or maybe even knows what it is – a very knowledgeable Citroen dealer was absolutely sure it was a ‘cup and spring’ in the inner CV tripod joint that, due to an over-extension of the drive shaft, would become loose and would then wedge itself into something in the joint and subsequently make the noise...well good try but no cigar...as mentioned above the CV joints were stripped and nothing untoward was found, dam!!!...

It is of course sending me slowly bonkers but I may go deaf before that due to the hi-fi being turned up so loud to mask out the noise – HELP PLEASE!!!...thanx everyone for reading...dizzy
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chinkostu
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by chinkostu »

This is going to sound horribly dangerous, but bear with me


Get the car as high and as secure as possible and let it coast in first. See if it makes the noise when the suspensions unloaded. Definately no play in the bearing?
Stu

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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by RichardW »

I was going to say wheel bearing, but then I remembered this thread: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=50825" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Get someone to have a very close look at the bottom swivel joints.... (replacement here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=50744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by dizzyblond »

Hi chinkostu and RichardW and thanx for your input, especially the topic links...I am 99.99% certain is is not swivel joints, ball joints or wishbone bushes, this is not a clunk type noise or a droning noise it is a rubbing sort of noise, like sandpaper on some rusty metal...AND...it only happens when the wheels rotate and always when the wheels rotate...the car has been up on a hoist and then the wheels have been taken off the deck of the hoist by an inner hoist and we ran the car up to 60kph and the technicians were underneath with stethoscopes and long bits of metal rod etc etc trying desperately to pinpoint the noise but to no avail...it has remained exactly the same in intensity over 5000kms and it just suddenly appeared one day apropos of nothing, right out of the blue...putting the car right up in the air and letting it coast in first gear would be interesting...do you mean on the highest height setting?? and lock it down in 1st on the sports side of the auto??...I will try this and see if the noise is any different but of course I am limited to 10kph on the highest height setting...once again thanx a mill guys, gotta keep trying to fix the things that Citroen couldn't!!...kind regards dizzy
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by Stickyfinger »

The noise I had was not a "sandpaper" sound at all...it was a rumble when driving like very bad tyre noise....on tight slow turns the sound was more a metallic click...again not at all like drop link clunk.

I would rule that out however I do think even in the new configuration, these part will always have a short service life. The problem is I think that even if there is no play in the bearing ( it is held in tension by the rest of the connections) at all, it can be dry and starting to fail giving the rumble....the click/clunk only happens when it gets really bad.
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by chinkostu »

Ah you've already had the car in the air with the wheels going. Was it not making the noise then? No on highest no, as in front end jacked up and on axle stands so the wheels can spin

I did have a saxo where the driveshaft spat its guts and took the wheel bearing out. Had no play but made a horrible din
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by dizzyblond »

Hi chinkostu...yes the noise could be heard when the car was in the air on the hoist, I was in the drivers seat and could hear it clearly but the technicians below had no luck at all, dam!!...and as for bearing rumble etc stickyfinger, nothing makes sense in terms of the cyclic nature of the noise, most bearing failures generate a constant noise until close to the end and then anything can happen but even then it is not cyclic...thanx for your input...kind regards dizzy
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by Stickyfinger »

I agree with you about the noise not being the same as that which I experienced, that joint type/bearing could not make the type of cyclic sound.

As you are the only one picking it up maybe the way ahead is to measure/find it is with a vibration measuring probe ? and look for any strange spikes
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by VertVega »

dizzyblond wrote:... it is a rubbing sort of noise, like sandpaper on some rusty metal...AND...it only happens when the wheels rotate ,,,
It would have suggested the clutch bearing (a failing one) based on the nature of the noise but it would not last for 5000 kms :roll: may be 1000 km with good luck.

When you hear the noise, slightly (feather touch) touch the clutch pedal and see if the noise changes at all.
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by demag »

Gearbox? Have you put a stethescope on the gearstick? Might be worth a go. Being as it can't be heard underneath.
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by dizzyblond »

Hi demag and vertvega it is an auto as per my original post...so no luck there...kind regards dizzy
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by Filberton »

From experience, be aware noise can travel through other bits of the car and sound like they are coming from where they aren't. The mind plays tricks.
This may well be the case if you say it sounds like it is coming from the front left but is quieter on the left or sounds like outside but can't be heard outside. The sound may be being transmitted via such as the centre console or other surface.

A stethoscope (with probe) or screwdriver handle in the ear and touching the tip on bits works well.

The oddest I had was a tapping over bumpy ground and everything said suspension......it turned out to be the radio aerial on the roof (laid flat) but even when we found it. It did not sound like it was on the roof.

You have narrowed it to drive train so now it is the usual
Ahead in gear and drive
Ahead in gear but clutch in
Coasting out of gear ( clutch in and out)

Same backwards

If you can, try with engine off but same again.

Then same on left turn, right turn

(I have come close to arrest in supermarket car parks doing this in the middle of the night but then you do not need to worry about where the car is going and you can concentrate on the noise.)


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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by dizzyblond »

Hi filberton...the vehicle is an auto - see my post above yours!!...interesting problem with the radio aerial though...it is not only me that has heard the noise, others have experienced it and I do understand resonant behaviour, as in, transmitting sound/vibration to distant parts of a structure totally away from where it originates, I'm still thinking transaxle/diff...the thot plickens...thanx for all your help guys...kind regards dizzxy
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by harryp »

Once changed a wheel bearing, and found out it was a tyre :shock: :oops: .
As you say, this type of problem can drive you nuts.

Now, I drink a lot of Aussie wine (amongst other stuff) and I was beginning to wonder ref ...the thot plickens... whether that has any bearing :rofl2: .
This has my interest and I hope you soon get to the bottom of the problem
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Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!

Post by dizzyblond »

Hi guys...apologies for the delay in responding I have huge problems with net/mobile and land-line access where I live and am often off the net for days/weeks at a time - grrrrrrr we love you Telstra!!...on balance I think I need to have the l/h front wheel bearing changed and then see what happens, I am just so hoping it is NOT in the transaxle as that would mean I will have to sell it as imho no vehicle is worth thousands and thousands - open ended cheque basically!! - to fix...

OK maybe we should all take a break until I have had the wheel bearing fitted and then I will report back and hopefully all will be well...once again thanx a mill to everyone for all your comments and suggestions...a very confused dizzy!!
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