BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Moderator: RichardW
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 09:53
- Location: Australia (NSW)
- My Cars:
BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Hi everyone and now for a insane story!!...
I have the most annoying and so far untraceable ‘noise’ in my 2007 (face lift model) Citroen C5 2.2Lt HDi Bi-Turbo 5 door hatch, with the 6 spd sports auto transmission...
OK here we go: the noise is a ‘rubbing’ sound that emanates from the front nearside (left hand side facing forward)...it cannot be heard from the back seats, it is not heard in the same intensity from the front passenger seat but is heard loud and clear from the drivers seat (right hand drive) and when it is at its loudest ie slowly going through a right hand bend, it can just be felt through the steering wheel...
It is a regular cyclic sound that is generated in sync with the road wheel rotation – any gear, any speed, it is totally in sync with the road wheel speed...it sounds like a worn out brake pad coming into contact with a slightly bent disc – but it’s not!!...
It is definitely originating from the front left side, this is shown when the car is turned into a right hand bend/corner when the noise will get markedly louder...conversely when turning into a left hander the noise will disappear, indicating that when the culprit is loaded up, then it becomes more ‘stressed’ or more in ‘contact’ hence the increase in noise level...
These are the areas that have been investigated:
1. All wheels and tyres have been rotated and/or changed...
2. All wheel bearings thoroughly checked...
3. All Brake discs and callipers/pads etc as above...
4. Left hand side drive shaft removed, CV joints split, repacked and replaced...
5. Transmission serviced, including fluid change...
No components were found to be faulty or had undue wear patterns, abrade marks or the like...
The only area that seems to remain a grey area is the transaxle/diff, which would rotate at road wheel speed, but the loading factor is a mystery??...
If anyone has even the remotest idea, or maybe even knows what it is – a very knowledgeable Citroen dealer was absolutely sure it was a ‘cup and spring’ in the inner CV tripod joint that, due to an over-extension of the drive shaft, would become loose and would then wedge itself into something in the joint and subsequently make the noise...well good try but no cigar...as mentioned above the CV joints were stripped and nothing untoward was found, dam!!!...
It is of course sending me slowly bonkers but I may go deaf before that due to the hi-fi being turned up so loud to mask out the noise – HELP PLEASE!!!...thanx everyone for reading...dizzy
I have the most annoying and so far untraceable ‘noise’ in my 2007 (face lift model) Citroen C5 2.2Lt HDi Bi-Turbo 5 door hatch, with the 6 spd sports auto transmission...
OK here we go: the noise is a ‘rubbing’ sound that emanates from the front nearside (left hand side facing forward)...it cannot be heard from the back seats, it is not heard in the same intensity from the front passenger seat but is heard loud and clear from the drivers seat (right hand drive) and when it is at its loudest ie slowly going through a right hand bend, it can just be felt through the steering wheel...
It is a regular cyclic sound that is generated in sync with the road wheel rotation – any gear, any speed, it is totally in sync with the road wheel speed...it sounds like a worn out brake pad coming into contact with a slightly bent disc – but it’s not!!...
It is definitely originating from the front left side, this is shown when the car is turned into a right hand bend/corner when the noise will get markedly louder...conversely when turning into a left hander the noise will disappear, indicating that when the culprit is loaded up, then it becomes more ‘stressed’ or more in ‘contact’ hence the increase in noise level...
These are the areas that have been investigated:
1. All wheels and tyres have been rotated and/or changed...
2. All wheel bearings thoroughly checked...
3. All Brake discs and callipers/pads etc as above...
4. Left hand side drive shaft removed, CV joints split, repacked and replaced...
5. Transmission serviced, including fluid change...
No components were found to be faulty or had undue wear patterns, abrade marks or the like...
The only area that seems to remain a grey area is the transaxle/diff, which would rotate at road wheel speed, but the loading factor is a mystery??...
If anyone has even the remotest idea, or maybe even knows what it is – a very knowledgeable Citroen dealer was absolutely sure it was a ‘cup and spring’ in the inner CV tripod joint that, due to an over-extension of the drive shaft, would become loose and would then wedge itself into something in the joint and subsequently make the noise...well good try but no cigar...as mentioned above the CV joints were stripped and nothing untoward was found, dam!!!...
It is of course sending me slowly bonkers but I may go deaf before that due to the hi-fi being turned up so loud to mask out the noise – HELP PLEASE!!!...thanx everyone for reading...dizzy
- chinkostu
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 24 Sep 2014, 09:41
- Location: cheshire
- My Cars: N Xantia 1.9TD SX
03 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec - x 30
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
This is going to sound horribly dangerous, but bear with me
Get the car as high and as secure as possible and let it coast in first. See if it makes the noise when the suspensions unloaded. Definately no play in the bearing?
Get the car as high and as secure as possible and let it coast in first. See if it makes the noise when the suspensions unloaded. Definately no play in the bearing?
Stu
Cars
1995 Xantia 1.9TD SX in (faded) Red
2003 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec in GREEEEEEEN
2001 206 1.9 LX
2001 Saxo VTR
1999 Saxo 1.1 East coast
1999 Punto
1996 306 1.8 XN Auto
1996 Fiesta 1.3
Cars
1995 Xantia 1.9TD SX in (faded) Red
2003 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec in GREEEEEEEN
2001 206 1.9 LX
2001 Saxo VTR
1999 Saxo 1.1 East coast
1999 Punto
1996 306 1.8 XN Auto
1996 Fiesta 1.3
-
- Forum Treasurer
- Posts: 10814
- Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl - x 984
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
I was going to say wheel bearing, but then I remembered this thread: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=50825" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Get someone to have a very close look at the bottom swivel joints.... (replacement here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=50744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Get someone to have a very close look at the bottom swivel joints.... (replacement here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=50744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
Richard W
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 09:53
- Location: Australia (NSW)
- My Cars:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Hi chinkostu and RichardW and thanx for your input, especially the topic links...I am 99.99% certain is is not swivel joints, ball joints or wishbone bushes, this is not a clunk type noise or a droning noise it is a rubbing sort of noise, like sandpaper on some rusty metal...AND...it only happens when the wheels rotate and always when the wheels rotate...the car has been up on a hoist and then the wheels have been taken off the deck of the hoist by an inner hoist and we ran the car up to 60kph and the technicians were underneath with stethoscopes and long bits of metal rod etc etc trying desperately to pinpoint the noise but to no avail...it has remained exactly the same in intensity over 5000kms and it just suddenly appeared one day apropos of nothing, right out of the blue...putting the car right up in the air and letting it coast in first gear would be interesting...do you mean on the highest height setting?? and lock it down in 1st on the sports side of the auto??...I will try this and see if the noise is any different but of course I am limited to 10kph on the highest height setting...once again thanx a mill guys, gotta keep trying to fix the things that Citroen couldn't!!...kind regards dizzy
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10411
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1280
- Contact:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
The noise I had was not a "sandpaper" sound at all...it was a rumble when driving like very bad tyre noise....on tight slow turns the sound was more a metallic click...again not at all like drop link clunk.
I would rule that out however I do think even in the new configuration, these part will always have a short service life. The problem is I think that even if there is no play in the bearing ( it is held in tension by the rest of the connections) at all, it can be dry and starting to fail giving the rumble....the click/clunk only happens when it gets really bad.
I would rule that out however I do think even in the new configuration, these part will always have a short service life. The problem is I think that even if there is no play in the bearing ( it is held in tension by the rest of the connections) at all, it can be dry and starting to fail giving the rumble....the click/clunk only happens when it gets really bad.
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
- chinkostu
- Posts: 1180
- Joined: 24 Sep 2014, 09:41
- Location: cheshire
- My Cars: N Xantia 1.9TD SX
03 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec - x 30
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Ah you've already had the car in the air with the wheels going. Was it not making the noise then? No on highest no, as in front end jacked up and on axle stands so the wheels can spin
I did have a saxo where the driveshaft spat its guts and took the wheel bearing out. Had no play but made a horrible din
I did have a saxo where the driveshaft spat its guts and took the wheel bearing out. Had no play but made a horrible din
Stu
Cars
1995 Xantia 1.9TD SX in (faded) Red
2003 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec in GREEEEEEEN
2001 206 1.9 LX
2001 Saxo VTR
1999 Saxo 1.1 East coast
1999 Punto
1996 306 1.8 XN Auto
1996 Fiesta 1.3
Cars
1995 Xantia 1.9TD SX in (faded) Red
2003 Fiesta 1.4 Zetec in GREEEEEEEN
2001 206 1.9 LX
2001 Saxo VTR
1999 Saxo 1.1 East coast
1999 Punto
1996 306 1.8 XN Auto
1996 Fiesta 1.3
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 09:53
- Location: Australia (NSW)
- My Cars:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Hi chinkostu...yes the noise could be heard when the car was in the air on the hoist, I was in the drivers seat and could hear it clearly but the technicians below had no luck at all, dam!!...and as for bearing rumble etc stickyfinger, nothing makes sense in terms of the cyclic nature of the noise, most bearing failures generate a constant noise until close to the end and then anything can happen but even then it is not cyclic...thanx for your input...kind regards dizzy
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10411
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1280
- Contact:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
I agree with you about the noise not being the same as that which I experienced, that joint type/bearing could not make the type of cyclic sound.
As you are the only one picking it up maybe the way ahead is to measure/find it is with a vibration measuring probe ? and look for any strange spikes
As you are the only one picking it up maybe the way ahead is to measure/find it is with a vibration measuring probe ? and look for any strange spikes
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
- VertVega
- Posts: 1178
- Joined: 01 Nov 2008, 19:39
- Location: Province nordique de l'Union européenne
- My Cars:
- x 13
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
It would have suggested the clutch bearing (a failing one) based on the nature of the noise but it would not last for 5000 kms may be 1000 km with good luck.dizzyblond wrote:... it is a rubbing sort of noise, like sandpaper on some rusty metal...AND...it only happens when the wheels rotate ,,,
When you hear the noise, slightly (feather touch) touch the clutch pedal and see if the noise changes at all.
C5 II 2.0i 16V - 2005 - Estate - 103KW - EW10A - Petrol - Manual
- demag
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 1441
- Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 05:03
- Location: Black Country, aye it ar kid.
- My Cars: "H" Citroen Bx Tgs Automatic.
2006 Toyota Prius T4 Gen 2. - x 102
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Gearbox? Have you put a stethescope on the gearstick? Might be worth a go. Being as it can't be heard underneath.
Dave
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
2011 Peugeot 3008 1.6hdi Exclusive EGS.
'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi. Gone.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day. Gone.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 09:53
- Location: Australia (NSW)
- My Cars:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Hi demag and vertvega it is an auto as per my original post...so no luck there...kind regards dizzy
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
From experience, be aware noise can travel through other bits of the car and sound like they are coming from where they aren't. The mind plays tricks.
This may well be the case if you say it sounds like it is coming from the front left but is quieter on the left or sounds like outside but can't be heard outside. The sound may be being transmitted via such as the centre console or other surface.
A stethoscope (with probe) or screwdriver handle in the ear and touching the tip on bits works well.
The oddest I had was a tapping over bumpy ground and everything said suspension......it turned out to be the radio aerial on the roof (laid flat) but even when we found it. It did not sound like it was on the roof.
You have narrowed it to drive train so now it is the usual
Ahead in gear and drive
Ahead in gear but clutch in
Coasting out of gear ( clutch in and out)
Same backwards
If you can, try with engine off but same again.
Then same on left turn, right turn
(I have come close to arrest in supermarket car parks doing this in the middle of the night but then you do not need to worry about where the car is going and you can concentrate on the noise.)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This may well be the case if you say it sounds like it is coming from the front left but is quieter on the left or sounds like outside but can't be heard outside. The sound may be being transmitted via such as the centre console or other surface.
A stethoscope (with probe) or screwdriver handle in the ear and touching the tip on bits works well.
The oddest I had was a tapping over bumpy ground and everything said suspension......it turned out to be the radio aerial on the roof (laid flat) but even when we found it. It did not sound like it was on the roof.
You have narrowed it to drive train so now it is the usual
Ahead in gear and drive
Ahead in gear but clutch in
Coasting out of gear ( clutch in and out)
Same backwards
If you can, try with engine off but same again.
Then same on left turn, right turn
(I have come close to arrest in supermarket car parks doing this in the middle of the night but then you do not need to worry about where the car is going and you can concentrate on the noise.)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Current: C5 X7 Exclusive 2.0 HDI Manual (2008)
C3 Puretech 1.2 Feel (2017)
Previous: Citroen C5 mk1 2.0 HDI,
Peugeots 407, 406, 406,205,309, 306 Meridian, 306 L, Peugeot 207L 1.4 manual (2003)
C3 Puretech 1.2 Feel (2017)
Previous: Citroen C5 mk1 2.0 HDI,
Peugeots 407, 406, 406,205,309, 306 Meridian, 306 L, Peugeot 207L 1.4 manual (2003)
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 09:53
- Location: Australia (NSW)
- My Cars:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Hi filberton...the vehicle is an auto - see my post above yours!!...interesting problem with the radio aerial though...it is not only me that has heard the noise, others have experienced it and I do understand resonant behaviour, as in, transmitting sound/vibration to distant parts of a structure totally away from where it originates, I'm still thinking transaxle/diff...the thot plickens...thanx for all your help guys...kind regards dizzxy
-
- (Donor 2022)
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 07 May 2011, 16:03
- Location: Telford, United Kingdom
- My Cars: Forte HDI 110 hatch in wicked red, SORN
Exclusive HDI hatch in quartz, SORN
C4 Picasso Exc E, Wifes
Peugeot 207cc - x 73
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Once changed a wheel bearing, and found out it was a tyre .
As you say, this type of problem can drive you nuts.
Now, I drink a lot of Aussie wine (amongst other stuff) and I was beginning to wonder ref ...the thot plickens... whether that has any bearing .
This has my interest and I hope you soon get to the bottom of the problem
Regards
As you say, this type of problem can drive you nuts.
Now, I drink a lot of Aussie wine (amongst other stuff) and I was beginning to wonder ref ...the thot plickens... whether that has any bearing .
This has my interest and I hope you soon get to the bottom of the problem
Regards
Regards, Harry
2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
2000 Mar Exclusive HDI hatch in Quartz; currently SORN
2013 C4 Picasso Excl E
Peugeot 207cc 1.6 Roland Garros
2000 Nov Forte HDI 110 hatch in Wicked Red; currently SORN
2000 Mar Exclusive HDI hatch in Quartz; currently SORN
2013 C4 Picasso Excl E
Peugeot 207cc 1.6 Roland Garros
-
- Posts: 15
- Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 09:53
- Location: Australia (NSW)
- My Cars:
Re: BONKERS the noise is sending me bonkers!!!
Hi guys...apologies for the delay in responding I have huge problems with net/mobile and land-line access where I live and am often off the net for days/weeks at a time - grrrrrrr we love you Telstra!!...on balance I think I need to have the l/h front wheel bearing changed and then see what happens, I am just so hoping it is NOT in the transaxle as that would mean I will have to sell it as imho no vehicle is worth thousands and thousands - open ended cheque basically!! - to fix...
OK maybe we should all take a break until I have had the wheel bearing fitted and then I will report back and hopefully all will be well...once again thanx a mill to everyone for all your comments and suggestions...a very confused dizzy!!
OK maybe we should all take a break until I have had the wheel bearing fitted and then I will report back and hopefully all will be well...once again thanx a mill to everyone for all your comments and suggestions...a very confused dizzy!!