Citroen Synergie brake bleeding.

[Ianhw77k]

Wondering if anyone here can tell me the correct order in which to bleed the brakes on my Citroën Synergie?
I've replaced all the hoses and the master cylinder this afternoon. I did try gravity bleeding, not sure I was doing it right though.
Unfortunately, I have no helper but I did buy a kit today, so I hope it works.
Thanks in advance for any help.

[citronut]

this is the kit i use, although without a goooogly search i would not ave thought of going to Screwfix for it

http://www.screwfix.com/p/gunson-brake- ... -set/33881" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

do not inflate the tyre you connect it to more thasn 20psi, i think the intruction say 18psi though ( whats 2 psi between friends )

the usual route for bleeding conventional brake is start at the furthest away from the master cylinder and work round to the nearest,,

kepp checking to easy bleed bottle and top up to around 3/4 full, or 1/4 empty, this depends on if you are laying upside down under the car , and keep the tyre topped up to the 20 psi

[Ianhw77k]

Thanks, I've been reading about those kits, wondering if I could use one on my compressor if I turned the regulator right down. Unfortunately it's too late for me to go shopping for more tools but if I haven't sorted it by lunchtime, I may have to pay screwfix a visit.
I'll trace the pipes and see which one is furthest, I'm sure the load compensator will confuse me nicely lol. I've also managed to secure a helper for the job so I'm going to go through the whole system, starting at the master, bleed that and work my way along.

Funnily enough, after googling the question. I found an old thread on here from a guy with exactly the same problem. Shame he never came back with what the solution was but his last comments suggested he was going to change the master cylinder, so let's hope that was the solution. I don't want to have to change the compensator, they're not cheap and I've lost enough money so far, not just on parts but waiting for parts to arrive. Bad back, holidays and this car have seen me out of work for over a month now!

[citronut]

no need to trace any pipes, the rule of thumb is you start at the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder, and work in a direction back to the nearest wheel,

i have never used my easy bleed on a compressor, it has a tyre valve connector so you just use it of the spare tyre,

with it under pressure you must not touch the brake pedal, as this can invert the master cylinder seals,

what brake bleeder did you purchase then Ian

[Ianhw77k]

I originally bought the kit with a simple one way valve on one end and a neoprene adapter with a plastic clamp on the other end.
We tried doing it with this and all the air seemed to come out but still the brakes weren't working properly.
So, I took a trip to Uckfield and bought the kit you suggested. We rigged that up on the spare wheel and managed to get more air out.
Now the brakes are biting but they're still not how I want them. The pedal still seems to go down too far before anything happens.
Funny you should mention about not pressing the pedal with the system pressurised as the instructions say you can do this and I did, but only a couple of times, more by mistake than anything. Hope I haven't knackered the new master cylinder.

Anyway, I've been told they're good enough and, as the back brakes bed in, it should improve. I'm still not happy though. Rebuilt rear drums, new pads on the front, all new steel braided hoses all round and a new master cylinder. Surely these brakes should be biting like a rabid dog? I'm at a loss.

[citronut]

i still would not press the pedal with the easy bleed under pressure!!,

are the rear brake adjusters in the drums adjusted up as far as possible with the drums off,
i always grind any lip off the drums so i can adjust the shoes out just that bit more before re/fitting the drums,

also if you have the Bendix rear set up and either the stainless steel pawl has gone awall ( in this case the adjuster ratchet can unwind )
or if you have fitted the adjusters on the wrong sides of your wagon they will try to unwind them selves, and kick the stainless steel pawl out of its seat,
the adjusters are handed, one is right hand and the other left hand thread

[Ianhw77k]

That's all been done mate. We ground the lip off, we did the drums one at a time to avoid any confusion, the self adjusters were in remarkably good condition, it was the shoes and cylinders that were the problem.
I'm pretty sure I haven't damaged this new master cylinder, it certainly feels a lot smoother now and the pedal doesn't stick down any more.
I've got to take it to work in the morning and I gave it a short test drive into Heathfield today. It's not as scary as it was before so we've obviously done something righ. It's just not quite there, if you get my drift.
My wife's Picasso got similar treatment and that thing now stops like a demon, I'd just like to get my car pulling up as well as hers. I like to feel brakes biting as soon as I hit the pedal.

[citronut]

i had a similar thing on a F*i*a*t Scud O, after lots of bleeding bleeding, they still where not right and every time you put your foot on the pedal and held the pressure on, it would gradually sink,

on asking around everyone said there all like that ,

it actually settled down on its own in a few days of use

[Ianhw77k]

That's what I thought. Give it some time.

Just out of interest, if I have inverted the seals in the master cylinder, what would the symptoms be?

[citronut]

Just out of interest, if I have inverted the seals in the master cylinder, what would the symptoms be?

i would think you would have no pressure from the master cylinder at all/or virtually non

[Ianhw77k]

Thanks for that.

I've been test driving it today and managed to get some open road with nobody behind me this evening. As we already know, the pedal goes down too far before there is any action, I mean, it's not flapping about or anything, it feels like it's making contact but it still goes down too far before the brakes bite.

The new thing I discovered tonight was that, as expected, the pedal rises again with a bit of pumping, only when it does rise, you need a hell of a lot more effort to get the brakes to work. They are like wood.

[citronut]

The new thing I discovered tonight was that, as expected, the pedal rises again with a bit of pumping, only when it does rise, you need a hell of a lot more effort to get the brakes to work. They are like wood.

sounds like the servo vacuum pump ( bolted on the end of the head just over the gear box ) aint working/properly/or running out of vacuum to quick,

or its possible on replacing the master cylinder you omitted to re/fit the gasket/O ring between it and the servo

[Ianhw77k]

I did wonder about the servo itself but when I removed the old master cylinder, the engine hadn't run for about two days and there was a distinctive sucking sound when I pulled it off, not to mention a lot of resistance. I'd say the servo itself is fine. The O ring seal seemed to be attached to the master, I made sure the mating faces were clean but I can check it again just to make sure.
The vac pump seems to be on the end of the camshaft, I'm hoping that's OK. I'll give it a few more days before I do any more work.

[Ianhw77k]

I also got a roll pin with the new master cylinder and I can't figure out where it goes. It's not long enough to be a reservoir retaining pin and no roll pin came out with the old master cylinder.