Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Tell us your ongoing tales and experiences with your French car here. Post pictures of your car here as well.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

MattBLancs wrote: 15 Oct 2023, 08:46 Given rear brakes / handbrake are functional, I'd be tempted to try a quick clean up of those disks in situ - quick dress up with angle grinder flap disk, spin the wheel to reveal the next bit and repeat.

That plus back in use might be enough to avoid needing replacement. Worth a shot I'd think
Not a bad shout, but I'd like to get the calipers overhauled and the flexible lines changed anyway - this is a single circuit braking system so we're not taking chances - so I'll already be pulling most of it to bits anyhow. We'll take a proper look at the discs and if they're serviceable they will probably stick around for a while, if not and they need changing, they need changing.

The rear caliper design is also just...well...odd. I have never quite understood how someone could decide that this was the optimal solution.

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A single piston caliper, even incorporating the handbrake really doesn't need to have half this many bits!

My intention is to get this MOTed going forward irrespective of being exempt. It's a powerful, heavy car and has quite a complex suspension setup plus a lot of bits of structure it's hard to inspect from the ground. Just seems like a good idea to me. Especially as I know zip about its history.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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xantia_v6
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by xantia_v6 »

Export market P6s had dual circuit brakes using the same system (I believe) as the S2/S3 E-type Jag, using a single circuit master cylinder with vacuum valve and dual circuit booster. The vacuum valve on the master cylinder gives full redundancy.
If you ever need to replace the booster, you might consider that upgrade.
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c16rkc
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by c16rkc »

Great updates - the car is certainly benefitting from you having found it :-D

I can only imagine what a pleasure it must be to rev that V8!
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

I'd noticed residue from a weep from an old repair to one of the radiator end tanks. It wasn't actively leaking, but had clearly been an issue in the past.

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I was pondering whether I would have a go at improving on the original repair there, however walking back to the car after it hasn't moved for a couple of days has made it clear that I'm probably going to be fighting a losing battle there.

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It's definitely been dribbling a bit.

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Residue on the front panel clearly shows that this is coolant.

Having a closer look at the radiator shows that there are at least two points in the actual core which are weeping, and the fins towards the bottom have started to come apart.

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Think it's just time for a new one. Radiators are one of those things you don't really want to play roulette with. So I'll be looking at getting one ordered shortly.

In the meantime an oil drain pan has been deployed to catch any further dripping as I don't want to risk animals drinking it.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by MattBLancs »

Definitely a complicated caliper!

Agree, radiator looks like it's handing it's notice in, think a good "piece of mind" swap to change that for new.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

A few days ago the Caddy was given one last clean up ready to move on to its new owner.

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Still doesn't scrub up bad for a 21 year old van.

Off she goes.

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Has been a cracking little car...van...? I still never quite decided whether to call this a car or a van. Always felt more car like to drive, so I've always tended towards car. I really hope she continues to give similarly Stirling service to the new owner.

This is a big weight off my mind though as it means that all my cars actually can be kept on my own property again rather than having to abandon one around the corner or have one lodged at a friend's house. That takes a bit of the urgency out of moving the P4 on at least.

A few days back a large box of box of bits arrived for the P6. The vast bulk of these by volume was a full coolant hose set. Additionally there was a full set of gaskets for the light clusters, a full set of stainless steel screws for the same as a bunch of mine have well mangled heads, new thermostat and housing gasket, a set of wiper blades, and an oil pump housing gasket.

Decided to tackle the light gaskets first as it seemed a nice simple job.

The reason the front light clusters were proving to be significantly less than weather proof wasn't hard to see, the gaskets had long since turned to plastic.

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The tail lights were also letting in a bunch of water as evidenced by this condensation.

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These turned out to be completely missing their gaskets which definitely wouldn't be helping. Hopefully adding these will help things out a bit.

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A similarly quick job was swapping out the ancient wiper blades for some new ones.

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I know these modern repro stainless blades aren't great, but I wanted to have a second set of them on hand so I could have a go at rebuilding the original ones I had with new rubber blades in case I wreck them. The stamping of the ones I took off is definitely far superior to the replacements. They do clear the screen acceptably though for now at least, and this isn't a car I'm likely to be using a huge amount in poor conditions anyway. That's what I have a modern daily for.

I've been looking into the options regarding the radiator. Off-the-shelf replacements don't appear to be available. No huge surprise to be honest.

There are a couple of suppliers offering exchange units for around the £300 mark by the time you've factored in two way postage etc. Alternatively there's a well reviewed company over in Kempston who can recore this one with an uprated core for around the same money. Which is probably the option I'm leaning towards. Being less than half an hour from home rather than having to entrust things to the postal system is a big plus, and being able to support local businesses always appeals to me. They can also carry out a repair to that end tank no problem, whereas those offering exchange parts I imagine may object to that damage. So that's likely to be the route I take there.

This brings us up to today, when I'd been feeling a bit rough but still wanted to try to get something ticked off the list. Changing the suspected sticky thermostat seemed like a good target. As it was quite crunchy and had a split at one end only being stopped from growing by the hose clip I took the opportunity to swap the top hose while I was there.

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The old thermostat wasn't the most gunged up I've ever seen but it was definitely a bit on the grubby side. That poor gasket though, I wonder how many times that has been used.

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I did note that the bleed hole in the original one was positioned at the bottom - whereas it really should be at the top like so.

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Idea being that any trapped air is then able to find its way past the 'stat through that hole without leaving the power head on the thermostat air bound which could cause it to fail to open.

Worth noting that after I took that photo I did dig off several layers of silicone and instant gasket off the sealing surface before bolting the housing back in place.

Not thrilled about the quality of the moulding of the new top hose, the radius of the curve leading to the thermostat housing is too wide so it wants to kink there a bit. Not badly so and once the system has a bit of pressure in it definitely won't be prone to collapsing, but it's a bit disappointing nevertheless. Sorry I didn't apparently get a photo of that. Admittedly, several of the current hoses on the car aren't the best fit either - the heater hose you can see below the thermostat in the above photo is basically wedged in place. Will see if the replacements are any better. I may be able to improve the fit of the new hose by just trimming the end a bit as that will naturally straighten out the bit that's trying to kink a little. I'll take another look at that when I'm feeling a bit more human.

I didn't have the opportunity to take the car for a road test today but the temperature at idle stabilised around here. Which doesn't look unreasonable to me for a car that's stationary.

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Hopefully it sits somewhere reasonable when we're actually moving as well, though that will need to wait till the weekend to find out.

Interestingly at one point while I was keeping an eye on this during warmup the fuel gauge visibly twitched two or three times. I'm (probably vainly) crossing my fingers that we might have a dead spot on the potentiometer and that as the level drops a bit we might see it spring back to life. I know the gauge itself works and we've got a good ground connection between the tank and body, so the sender is our issue. Wishful thinking I know, but I'm going to cling to it for now given how much of a pain getting to the sender will be.

Have noticed I do have a slight weep from the top radiator hose connection so imagine there's some gunk trapped in there. Radiator will be coming out probably this week anyway so I'll likely just be leaving that be until then as it's a tiny weep.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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CitroJim
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

An excellent update Zel and pleased to see the Caddy has a new owner 😀
Jim

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by mickthemaverick »

So where are you going to keep your tea now Zel? :-D
I used to be indecisive, now I'm not so sure!
I used to ride on two wheels, but now I need all four!
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

See what I was meaning about that top hose?

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Radius of that bend at the thermostat end as moulded is too wide, it's essentially trying to connect to a space roughly halfway between the thermostat and the driver's side rocker cover.

Nevertheless, topped up the coolant today and went for a proper test. Seems to sit around here when driving normally, albeit after peaking quite high on the gauge before the stat opens.

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This is higher than I'd generally expect on a car of this age, especially on a coolish day and when I'm still treating the car pretty gently.

Though I have zero prior experience with a P6 so I've no reference to know what's normal. I also don't have huge confidence in the accuracy or otherwise of the gauge as it certainly doesn't feel or smell to me to be running warm - so I'm leaning more towards the gauge just being a little on the pessimistic side.

I'd just tend based on prior experience with cars old enough to have an actual gauge rather than some lying ECU controlled nonsense, for the temperature gauge to generally sit probably somewhere covering the 8 of 85 unless you were sitting in traffic.

Open to feedback from others who know these cars better there.

We do seem to actually have some heat from the heater which is nice, albeit no blower yet. Haven't had a chance to investigate that yet.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by bobins »

Do you know anyone locally with an IR thermometer ?
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

bobins wrote: 21 Oct 2023, 21:30 Do you know anyone locally with an IR thermometer ?
I have one, however I've managed to forget to retrieve it every time I've walked out to the garage lately. I'll try to get a reference figure from that shortly.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

Looks like the gauge is at least reasonably accurate. Highest temperature I saw measured on the top of the radiator end tank immediately adjacent to the inlet was in the low-mid 90s after the car had been warmed up and then idling for about 20 minutes. If my math is right the boundary between the green/red sections of the gauge is near as makes no odds 100C, and we were sitting a little below there. The sender is in the water jacket in the inlet manifold right next to the front coolant passage from the driver's side head, which I imagine would be slightly warmer.

While I had the IR thermometer out I did a check on each branch of the exhaust manifold. They were all within 15C of each other, which suggests to me that we've got pretty even contribution being made by all cylinders. Kind of wish I'd done that before doing all the work on the heads now as it would have been interesting to compare. At least it's showing me what I want to see now at least!

One reason I wanted to do these tests, aside from confirming the engine was running in a safe zone temperature wise was so that I've got a baseline to compare to when I get the radiator re-cored.

While I think about it, am I right in thinking that there was no lower fan shroud fitted on these cars? I know I don't have one, but I don't believe it's missing.

Did run into an issue when I subsequently took the car out to cool it off a bit before shutting down in that after two or three minutes driving it started to cut out under load. Felt like fuel starvation. Engine would idle fine, but fall flat on its face if you gave it any sort of throttle. Idling for a minute or two got me another minute or so of normal driving before it would happen again. Which makes me think fuel delivery even more as during a period of low demand the float bowls were being able to refill. Of course as soon as we got into our neighborhood where I had somewhere safe to stop the problem immediately disappeared. Go figure.

Rebuilding the fuel pump has always been high on the to do list, so that's now been moved to the top of the to do list as failure of that would result in exactly this sort of behaviour. I did check we didn't have a vacuum forming at the tank end and we didn't.

I just need to figure out a reliable way of stemming the high pressure jet of fuel that's going to want to escape as soon as I disconnect the inlet side of the pump. Going to investigate if I have any random fittings of the right type as just sticking a hose on there which extends above the height of the level in the tank would be the easy solution.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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bobins
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by bobins »

What fuel are you using ? Standard unleaded, or super-duper premium ?
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Zelandeth
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by Zelandeth »

bobins wrote: 22 Oct 2023, 22:44 What fuel are you using ? Standard unleaded, or super-duper premium ?
Goodness only knows...I added about £2.30 worth of 99 before discovering the tank to already be full.
Current fleet:
07 Volvo V70 SE D5, 88 Renault 25 Monaco, 85 Sinclair C5, 84 Trabant 601S, 75 Rover 3500, 73 AC Model 70.
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CitroJim
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Re: Zel's Fleet Blog - BX, Jag XJ-S, Sinclair C5, Mercedes 208D & 230TE, AC Model 70.

Unread post by CitroJim »

Have you changed the fuel filter? That small one I saw on it may be the reason for a bit of faltering when under heavy load...

You won't get a jet of high pressure fuel when you disconnect anything in the fuel system Zel... Carb. systems run at very low pressure...

Use only the best petrol in her Zel... Back in the day Five-Star was always the recommendation for the P6...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...