Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold - Solved
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Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold - Solved
Yesterday I could not start the engine. I hooked a Lexia and I could not communicate with the the engine ECU ( at the same time it did communicate with the AL4 automatic gear ECU ) . I suspected that the ECU doesn't get the correct voltage, so I unplugged the engine ECU harness. As I don't have the wiring diagram I checked all the pins some of them showed voltage but none showed 12.5v all where not more then 11.5V. As I have nothing to do without the wiring diagram of the car I plugged the ECU harness connector back to the ECU and voila the Lexia could communicate with the ECU and then one turn of the starter and the engine started. I have to mention that when the engine started jumpers were connected to my C4 to the Xantia since the battery was low. Happily I drove the Xantia and today at the morning I could not start the Xantia again. I have to add that it is very could less than 8 degrees Celsius. I noticed that on top of the engine problem the power door locks are not working. From my experience when the temperature rises to around 13 -14 degrees Celsius it looks the power locks work. It looks like there is a bad electrical contact that is depends on the temperature.
Any help is welcome
Thanks
Zohar
Any help is welcome
Thanks
Zohar
Last edited by lancia58 on 10 Dec 2017, 19:40, edited 1 time in total.
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when col
There is a known issue with the battery leads beginning to fail due to age. I wonder if that could be your problem?
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=38273" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=38273" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when col
Hi
If the battery leads failed how comes that the starter spins freely and not slughisly like a low battery in case the leads fails ?
Thanks
If the battery leads failed how comes that the starter spins freely and not slughisly like a low battery in case the leads fails ?
Thanks
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when col
Ok, so it isn't likely to be the leads.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
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Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when col
Hi
Just came back after succeeding in starting the engine, following is what I did:
1) I took apart the ECU and check with Digital Multi Meter that the pins of the ECU connector are soldered well. I did this inside my apartment a fact that warmed up the ECU to around 20 degrees Celsius
2) I used a women hair drying fan
3) Warm up the positive battery terminal
4) Warm up the fuse box under the steering wheel
5) After this I started the car and the engine immediately came on no more than 1 to 1.5 starter turns
As I did all the above steps at one time I do not know which of them temporally solved the problem. I am sure this problem will reappear. From all the above steps I think step 4 did the job. The car is fitted with an after market remote control and automatic windows lifter. Although the car is originally fitted with remote control the guys that installed the window lifter bypassed the original remote control. To say the least they did a bad job as the wires are not soldered and they cut the original wiring. I plan for a long time to remove the after market windows lifter and re-wire to the original.
Anyway I need the wiring diagrams of the car for both tracking down the problem and re-wire to the original state
Thanks
Zohar
Just came back after succeeding in starting the engine, following is what I did:
1) I took apart the ECU and check with Digital Multi Meter that the pins of the ECU connector are soldered well. I did this inside my apartment a fact that warmed up the ECU to around 20 degrees Celsius
2) I used a women hair drying fan
3) Warm up the positive battery terminal
4) Warm up the fuse box under the steering wheel
5) After this I started the car and the engine immediately came on no more than 1 to 1.5 starter turns
As I did all the above steps at one time I do not know which of them temporally solved the problem. I am sure this problem will reappear. From all the above steps I think step 4 did the job. The car is fitted with an after market remote control and automatic windows lifter. Although the car is originally fitted with remote control the guys that installed the window lifter bypassed the original remote control. To say the least they did a bad job as the wires are not soldered and they cut the original wiring. I plan for a long time to remove the after market windows lifter and re-wire to the original.
Anyway I need the wiring diagrams of the car for both tracking down the problem and re-wire to the original state
Thanks
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold
Zohar - diagrams sent via email.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold
Apart from battery connections degrading with age (replace them with brass clamp type, and clean up the heavy cable strands back to bright metal), the multiway connector pins at the emgine ECU are also known to acquire dirt over the years. With battery disconnected, unplug, and use a good quality aerosol contact cleaner on both halves. Unplug and plug in several times to shift any residue.
Over years of use, all the electrical connectors and relays at the very front of the car can show dirt and oxidation on their pins/blades - especially if the car has had use in dusty or wet conditions.
Also worth checkimg out Ground connections to bodywork: unbolt, clean up and bolt down tight. You may even find that the area on the body around the threaded hole was factory-painted! Worth cleaning this paint off, back to clean metal, so there is a better ground contact. Protect the ground connection with a dob of grease after you have bolted all the clean bits down.
Over years of use, all the electrical connectors and relays at the very front of the car can show dirt and oxidation on their pins/blades - especially if the car has had use in dusty or wet conditions.
Also worth checkimg out Ground connections to bodywork: unbolt, clean up and bolt down tight. You may even find that the area on the body around the threaded hole was factory-painted! Worth cleaning this paint off, back to clean metal, so there is a better ground contact. Protect the ground connection with a dob of grease after you have bolted all the clean bits down.
Chris
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold
Hi
When I warm the passenger compartment fuse box with a hair fan for couple of minutes all is OK and I can start the car, so I guess it is someway related to the fuse box or some other connector that is near the fuse box. The fuse box is not detachable , it is not the one that is frequently found in Xantia's but the same one as in a Berlingo. I noticed that when the engine wont start the immobilizer sign in the instrument cluster ( a key like Orange icon ) is not lit. That means that somewhere in the immobilizer circuit chain there is a failure due to low voltage. Fuse #9 powers the CPH that in turn is part of the power lock , so I guess that there is a bad electrical contact between fuse #9 and the connector that plugs onto the CPH.
Zohar
When I warm the passenger compartment fuse box with a hair fan for couple of minutes all is OK and I can start the car, so I guess it is someway related to the fuse box or some other connector that is near the fuse box. The fuse box is not detachable , it is not the one that is frequently found in Xantia's but the same one as in a Berlingo. I noticed that when the engine wont start the immobilizer sign in the instrument cluster ( a key like Orange icon ) is not lit. That means that somewhere in the immobilizer circuit chain there is a failure due to low voltage. Fuse #9 powers the CPH that in turn is part of the power lock , so I guess that there is a bad electrical contact between fuse #9 and the connector that plugs onto the CPH.
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold
Is this the same car described in this topic? https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 6&start=15
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold
Yes , but I did some more research and now I am more focused on the source of the problem,
Zohar
Zohar
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold-Solved
Hi
Finally I had the time to track it down. I took the glovebox out and heated with a hair fan the CPH ( Texton box ) and immediately the immobilizer functioned and I was able to start the car. I re-soldered all the connectors and the chips inside the box but it didn't cure the problem. Then I took out the printed circuit from the black box and put my finger on the CPU in the box ( a big Texton chip ) in order to heat it ( up to 37 Celsius ). Gradually the CPH started to function till it was completely functional. As I removed my finger from the chip it gradually stopped functioning. I ordered a used CPH ( Same Texton model ) plugged it in and it worked in cold temperatures. As the immobilizer code in the EEPROM that is mounted on the printed circuit is different than the one in the none-functioning CPH I switched the immobilizer icon in the instrument cluster is blinking and the engine won't start. All I have to do now is transfer the EEPROM from the none functioning CPH to the one I ordered to make the immobilizer work again, or reading the EEPROM and re-program the ignition key with my Lexia.
Zohar
Finally I had the time to track it down. I took the glovebox out and heated with a hair fan the CPH ( Texton box ) and immediately the immobilizer functioned and I was able to start the car. I re-soldered all the connectors and the chips inside the box but it didn't cure the problem. Then I took out the printed circuit from the black box and put my finger on the CPU in the box ( a big Texton chip ) in order to heat it ( up to 37 Celsius ). Gradually the CPH started to function till it was completely functional. As I removed my finger from the chip it gradually stopped functioning. I ordered a used CPH ( Same Texton model ) plugged it in and it worked in cold temperatures. As the immobilizer code in the EEPROM that is mounted on the printed circuit is different than the one in the none-functioning CPH I switched the immobilizer icon in the instrument cluster is blinking and the engine won't start. All I have to do now is transfer the EEPROM from the none functioning CPH to the one I ordered to make the immobilizer work again, or reading the EEPROM and re-program the ignition key with my Lexia.
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold - Solved
Hi
I switched the EEPROM and now all is good. Immobilizer is functioning in all temperatures and car starts immediately
Zohar
I switched the EEPROM and now all is good. Immobilizer is functioning in all temperatures and car starts immediately
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold - Solved
Gosh, that's an incredibly interesting problem Zohar! Fantastic diagnosis and solution! Well done
Jim
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold - Solved
Some of my observations regarding the problem
1) When the CPH is not functioning the Lexia can not communicate with the engine ECU, as I don't have the wiring diagram I guess that the communication is done via the CPH or the ECU power is controlled some how by the CPH
2) Even when the CPH functioned ( immobilizer was OK ) , when it was cold I had a harsh starting , now the car starts immediately.
3) With a good CPH it seems like the engine works more smooth/even
4) The problem in the following thread also cured with the new CPH box and no relay clicking anymore
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46931
5) It looks like the problem of bad smell in the following thread also cured
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36380
Regarding issues 4 and 5 above I can only guess that if the engine ECU power if fed via the CPH, it may be that the ECU voltage was a bit low ( didn't check it ) and the sensors values read by the ECU may be a bit wrong resulting in error in calculating the correct air to fuel ratio, but this is my guess and not a solid conclusion
Zohar
1) When the CPH is not functioning the Lexia can not communicate with the engine ECU, as I don't have the wiring diagram I guess that the communication is done via the CPH or the ECU power is controlled some how by the CPH
2) Even when the CPH functioned ( immobilizer was OK ) , when it was cold I had a harsh starting , now the car starts immediately.
3) With a good CPH it seems like the engine works more smooth/even
4) The problem in the following thread also cured with the new CPH box and no relay clicking anymore
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46931
5) It looks like the problem of bad smell in the following thread also cured
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36380
Regarding issues 4 and 5 above I can only guess that if the engine ECU power if fed via the CPH, it may be that the ECU voltage was a bit low ( didn't check it ) and the sensors values read by the ECU may be a bit wrong resulting in error in calculating the correct air to fuel ratio, but this is my guess and not a solid conclusion
Zohar
Xantia 2.0 16V Automatic make year 2000 LHD
Citroen C4 THP Automatic make year 2009 LHD
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Citroen C4 VTS 2.0 16V make year 2006 LHD
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Re: Xantia engine wont start - bad electric contact when cold - Solved
That's a real bonus when one fix also fixes two other faults Zohar That's just excellent!
Jim
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