FU from Charlie !

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Stickyfinger
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FU from Charlie !

Post by Stickyfinger »

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addo
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Post by addo »

I've admired the immediate and steadfast public reaction to a horrible crime.

Northern_Mike

Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Northern_Mike »

I think it's extremely cowardly of the British Press not to republish any of the Charlie Hebdo cartoons that allegedly caused so much offence - this, in effect, means they are letting those that committed this awful crime win. Shameful.

It seems they are happy to show us pretty disturbing pictures of dead Policeman's feet, bullet holes in windows, bloodied rooms, terrorists with guns in the street shooting at a blurred policeman on the floor.. yet not a few satirical cartoons? Disgraceful.

As Steve Bell , the long-time satirical cartoonist said ""We've got to stand up for the right to take the p1ss out of these monsters, these idiots, these fools, these posturing maniacs who strut around in their black gear as a kind of death cult trying to frighten us all"

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Stickyfinger
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Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Dangerous times, we should also remember what happened when the "west" turned on a religion last time, not good.

It really is not good to push the unwashed masses of Europe to much, the West's leaders need them to be happy, the West is also very good at being very very nasty with our science.

This "method" of attack is now a pattern, expect our lives to change over the next few years ......it takes so little, to cause so much, to so many........expect more guys, this will test our humanity for many years ahead.
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Northern_Mike

Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Northern_Mike »

Stickyfinger wrote:Dangerous times, we should also remember what happened when the "west" turned on a religion last time, not good.
Without wishing to get too political, maybe it would help stop the attacks if the "allies" kept their noses out of these people's countries and stopped bombing the s**t out of them? After all, there was hardly any (and none in the Western world) Islamic terror attacks before the allies went and destroyed Iraq the first time back in 1991... then we did it again and again, and the attacks got worse and worse. Afghanistan (lets destroy a whole country looking for one man) and Iraq 2, an invasion based on a complete pack of lies just made the situation irreparably worse...

I have no sympathy with these vile people, but history has shown over 1000s of years that if you go and ruin someone's country, expect them to be annoyed about it..

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Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by daviemck2006 »

I totally agree with NM. Don't want to start a political debate on here as they can get out of hand very quickly, but I believe the worst terrorist in the world is whoever is the president of the USA. And the second is whoever is the PM of the UK. If they stopped starting wars and bombing in the middle east then middle east terrorists wouldn't bomb or attack back. Maybe I am oversimplifying it but it's what I believe.

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Northern_Mike

Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Northern_Mike »

I was not disappointed to learn they are closing the Yank air bases in Cambridgeshire today, despite the fact it'll be hard for my wife when her sister has to leave. They can **** off and take their "intelligence", air - refuelling tankers, fighter jets and whatever other military hardware they have with them.

In other words, I agree 100% with you Davie.

The other thing - all these people saying things have to change and security must improve.. well, a)That just lets the bad guys win, and b) er HELLO, we had the IRA planting bombs in cars and in wastebins in town centres for years. Me and my bro were only 1/2 mile away when the Manchester bomb in 1996 went off. We're not going to let a few nutters put the wind up us after going through years of that are we? I bloody hope not!

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Post by addo »

There's less political mileage in quiet ultimatums than blood and gore. Less spectator attraction too - which ultimately means less sales of advertising and terror theatre items/services. Even "our side" has tens, probably hundreds of thousands leeching funds off governmental bodies by shamelessly feeding paranoia.

If you look at the Parisian peoples' massed response, it is basically "You cannot kill us; we are everywhere and will continue to be free". That's not a closed group.

I object strongly to the idea that everyone needs to be examined more thoroughly and huge dossiers of data compiled on each and every person. Ultimately this will be abused, either for political blackmail (to shut down a budding opponent with - say - evidence of p**n websites they viewed as a teenager) or personal acts of crime from stalking or harassment right through to fraud and sexual assault.

Northern_Mike

Re:

Post by Northern_Mike »

addo wrote:There's less political mileage in quiet ultimatums than blood and gore. Less spectator attraction too - which ultimately means less sales of advertising and terror theatre items/services. Even "our side" has tens, probably hundreds of thousands leeching funds off governmental bodies by shamelessly feeding paranoia.

If you look at the Parisian peoples' massed response, it is basically "You cannot kill us; we are everywhere and will continue to be free". That's not a closed group.

I object strongly to the idea that everyone needs to be examined more thoroughly and huge dossiers of data compiled on each and every person. Ultimately this will be abused, either for political blackmail (to shut down a budding opponent with - say - evidence of brainless crap websites they viewed as a teenager) or personal acts of crime from stalking or harassment right through to fraud and sexual assault.
I agree 100% with Addo too. Especially on the Parisians - this is a great reaction, and the fact that no one needs to be examined more thoroughly.

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Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Agree about "our" actions as well....however the "Abdul is out of the Bottle" guys....it IS where we are at now.
I always said that if we dropped Fridges full of food and Generators we would of made a bigger impression than bombs in Afgan.

The BIG difference now, they have practiced this type of attack and just think what 7-10 with a few more guns and a couple of Kg of PE could (will) do on a Saturday in Central Manchester ?

We in the UK are without an armed (and untrained in) Police and thus have a BIG problem here....weapons and personal ....we DO NOT have that except within the Army.....expect their deployment to UK Towns and Cities

Northern_Mike

Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Northern_Mike »

Stickyfinger wrote:
The BIG difference now, they have practiced this type of attack and just think what 7-10 with a few more guns and a couple of Kg of PE could (will) do on a Saturday in Central Manchester ?

We in the UK are without an armed (and untrained in) Police and thus have a BIG problem here....weapons and personal ....we DO NOT have that except within the Army.....expect their deployment to UK Towns and Cities
You're talking scaremongering nonsense. We have a very good armed police force here. It's part of the reason we have very low level of crime and little gun crime.

You appear to have forgotten days gone by when even I used to wonder if the oddly parked van I just walked past or the waste bin I was stood near had an IRA bomb in it.

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Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Well armed Police....your joking right ? they have neither the fire power or the equipment to deal with this, neither do we have the "National Guard" as we have no recent political history that required it for social order.

Put 10 Jehad nutjobs in the Trafford Center and see what happens.....it is the big threat at the moment and it is a developing "Method of Operating" for terror attacks, our social freedoms are the back door in, it will need compromising greatly.
It is easy to do, just needs a few bits of equipment and surprise, also no problem when compared to Aircraft Jacking etc.
There are also now good stocks of guys with weapon training in every city in the west. The PWH showed by the Terrorists in Paris indicated certain skills and disciplines only developed with training/discipline and self control in a combat
or a stress training situation. (been there done that in Africa and Northern Ireland)...this is a problem with x3 even for the French , x10 or more gives us Mumbai.

I am not scaremongering at all, but we need to be prepared for the social and political upheaval that will come as we are being told it will.
We should think about it and work out intelligent reactions, if we knee jerk this we will give ourselves more of a problem in both the short term in dealing with the threat and the long-term erosion of personal freedom.

Northern_Mike

Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Northern_Mike »

I can't even be bothered to destroy all your points because this is a friendly forum. It's all scaremongering nonsense. If you want your social freedoms removed, bugger off to the USA, Russia or North Korea..

Tell me. Is a "jehad nutjob" in the Trafford centre any different to a nutty teenager with guns shooting 25 kids in a school, or 15 people in a cinema, or 20 people in a shopping centre like happens in the USA with regular monotony? No, not really. You can't regulate against that either. .

They also have the National guard and heavily armed police. I note, with great interest, they have precisely zero effect on these nutcases.

Your ideas are simply giving into the "terrorists".

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Re: FU from Charlie !

Post by Stickyfinger »

Before you go off on you "giving in to" screams and wailing, WHAT Ideas ??....
northern_mike wrote:I can't even be bothered to destroy all your points because this is a friendly forum. It's all scaremongering nonsense. If you want your social freedoms removed, bugger off to the USA, Russia or North Korea..
No need thanks....I will refrain from Buggering-Off thanks. I like my social freedoms thank you and have in the past had to defend them and would again without a second of time passing. What ever you think, we will need to compromise our new liberties to defend it again, we did last time in many ways (and how much we did "undercover" is only now coming out).

Tell me. Is a "jehad nutjob" in the Trafford centre any different to a nutty teenager with guns shooting 25 kids in a school, or 15 people in a cinema, or 20 people in a shopping centre like happens in the USA with regular monotony? No, not really. You can't regulate against that either. .

Yes....look to Mumbai
Yes, training and weapon skills....look at Paris
Yes, 10 Skilled shooters will cause immense problems...Look to Russian School attack


They also have the National guard and heavily armed police. I note, with great interest, they have precisely zero effect on these nutcases.
But they have a effect of speed of reaction and availability of weapon trained personnel locally.....and us, WHAT have we got ?.....we have not the ability the French have...88k Police, all armed deployed ....The MeT could not even get to Croydon before they burnt it down !

Your ideas are simply giving into the "terrorists".

What, by being prepared, I should hope so ..

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Post by addo »

If there is an attack on a public café in my country, I will patronise a public café and encourage others to do so. If there is an assault on a transport hub, I will catch a bus or train at the next opportunity. If someone tries to create carnage in a public space, I will react by showing my lack of fear; statistically I am safer there than crossing a busy road. This is the whole thrust of what Parisians have been doing the last couple of days.