different starting problem than usual

[redzzed]

1997 xantia 1.9 td , had a 2nd hand battery in and occasionaly especially when cold , the lights and ignition would come on
but just a click when turning the key or nothing at all .
Last year i had every checked out for this without a fault being found (starter motor etc)
To be safe i just bought a new battery with 2 yrs guaruntee and this morning when icy , that old problem came back and it started on the 10th attempt.
if the engine turns it starts right away .

i have quite new spark plugs in btw .
when the new battery went in the guy remarked that i have a negative lead which doesnt fit well (too small) on the positive terminal .

any advice welcome thx

[Hell Razor5543]

Sparks Plugs? On a TD? Surely you mean Glow Plugs?

[Northern_Mike]

I would expect so

[Xantidote]

but just a click when turning the key or nothing at all

This would suggest battery low on charge/getting old, starter/solenoid iffy, or battery lead/terminal not good. I'd look very carefully at the battery leads first, and replace if in doubt - not going to break the bank. On my TD, I've added an extra earth lead from battery to engine/clutch housing bolt as a precautionary measure.

i have a negative lead which doesnt fit well (too small) on the positive terminal

On re-reading, I now understand what you mean . Positive and negative terminals are deliberately manufactured to be different sizes.

[elma]

Bad connection or duff starter I would suspect. I'd check that -ve lead first then all the wiring as far as the starter. It's getting current if the solenoid clicks, theres either not enough left after the solenoid opens or the starter is broken. You said you had a new battery but have you checked the voltage on it? Low battery would cause this as well. Cold does drop the voltage a bit too.

[old-un77]

I always saw that the positive clamp is larger than the negative...........two pos clamps methinks........you HAVE got the battery correct ????? way round......?
meaning correct battery terminal positions........O+ve...O-ve...............O-ve....O+ve
Bob

[CitroJim]

This very issue can also be caused by the ignition switch and associated wiring introducing an excessive voltage drop to the starter solenoid. It then cannot pull fully in and correctly start up or engage the starter... A voltmeter check on the solenoid connection as well as the main feed to the starter motor will reveal if it is so...

It is a very common fault on V6 Xantias and XMs and the fix is to install a helper relay so that the solenoid is fed direct from the battery.

A search of the forum will reveal the standard mod we do to the V6 to overcome this. It's quite applicable to any Xantia...

Basically, all that it does is the original starter solenoid feed from the ignition switch just operates a standard automotive relay which in turn connects battery positive (via a 30A fuse) direct to the solenoid terminal.

[old-un77]

Hi Jim that sounds similar to the mod that a certain forklift maker added, called a ignitionswitch protection relay. the starter motor built in solenoid drew so much current it was killing ignition switches, Basically a bog standard solenoid which in turn drives the starter solenoid.....direct from the battery..
Bob

[CitroJim]

Yep, exactly that Bob

And it works a treat!

[Peter.N.]

I was about to say the same - or something similar.

Peter

[Xantia97]

Hi All,
Well I was going to put this info in a separate post but this seems a good place now. May not be the OP's problem but worth knowing I think.

Snoopy is a 1.9TD 1997 Xantia. I have had starting problems for the last five years or so, sometimes she'd start for days in a row and then nothing - flat as a pancake. Each visit to a garage resulted in a new battery - four in five years. Broke down last year, had run the car for an hour on a motorway (she had started perfectly when we left the house), stopped at a garden centre for 15 minutes, then the car failed to start, turned over once or twice then flat as a pancake. Mechanic with the breakdown truck said it was definitely the starter motor, so booked her in for a new starter motor but the garage refused to do the job and put on a new battery (the fourth) instead. We looked for a parasitic leak but couldn't find one, did numerous tests.

I knew I had a wet floor and so the alarm ecu was probably wet, so this summer removed the ecu, dried it, cleaned it and dried the carpet, sealed the leaks (scuttle and roof gutters). We had a very hot summer so the whole car dried out very well. The starting problem appeared to have improved so I put it down to the wet ecu. Put the ecu back in the car in the hope the alarm would work, no joy. However, the starting problem appeared again once the alarm ecu was reinstalled, but this time it wasn't wet or damp. Took the ecu out again and the problem disappeared. Due to ill-health I haven't been able to drive for the last two months and Snoopy has sat on the drive in a lot of rain, we didn't even turn her over in that time. Went to start her yesterday (expected a flat battery as normal) and she fired first time and continued to do so all day . Fingers-crossed this continues. I can only assume that when the alarm ecu was in place it was facilitating an intermittant short circuit somewhere, perhaps the wiring to the siren which hasn't worked for at least six years. The alarm always had to be switched off since the plip didn't work so the lights were not flashing and draining the battery.

Hope this helps someone.
Juliet

[redzzed]

but just a click when turning the key or nothing at all

This would suggest battery low on charge/getting old, starter/solenoid iffy, or battery lead/terminal not good. I'd look very carefully at the battery leads first, and replace if in doubt - not going to break the bank. On my TD, I've added an extra earth lead from battery to engine/clutch housing bolt as a precautionary measure.

i have a negative lead which doesnt fit well (too small) on the positive terminal

On re-reading, I now understand what you mean . Positive and negative terminals are deliberately manufactured to be different sizes.

Thanks for all the replies , like the good little procrastinator that i am , i have done nothing about it , but it started 2nd time this morning and then every time since .
will address the battery terminal first , and then get on to the starter , did have this checked before .The battery is brand new and the lights seem brighter than before so i'm sure it's good.

thx

[Xantia97]

To disarm the alarm without the plip - as per MK 1 owner's handbook - will stop headlights flashing etc. until the battery is disconnected and reconnected, then you have to do it again. Using the plip may re-arm it on next use - my plips don't work so I'm not sure about that.

Unlock the doors with the key and enter the vehicle ( the siren will sound - if working, lights start flashing)
Within 10 seconds of the siren sounding (lights flashing), press and hold the volumetric protection override switch (speaker symbol with cross through it) whilst turning on the ignition.
If necessary repeat the procedure if the siren (lights) restart (after 30 seconds).

This did disarm my alarm but did not stop the battery drain, only removing the alarm ecu sorted my problem.

Hope this helps,
Juliet

[Xantidote]

I know that you can do something to the in car fuses to enable the radio only when the accessory setting is keyed but exactly what is it and which fuse?

Anyone know ... i've read about the 'shunt' fuse ... what does it do exactly and which one is it?

On my 1995 S1 TD, fuse 1 in the "under dashboard" fusebox, near driver's right knee, has 2 positions, 1 allowing the radio to function without a key, and the other only allowing the radio to operate with the key turned on to one of it's intermediate positions. This would be the "shunt fuse" you mention.

Seems to me you've more or less solved the battery problem, tracking the fault to the radio. Presumably at present, the radio works whether the key's in the ignition or not? I'd expect changing fuse 1's position will stop the overnight drain, but as to the precise fault in the radio, I can't help you. Hope it's as simple as that!

[Xantia97]

As far as I know the small blippy red led, if it is beside the radio controls and not up by the clock (at least on my S1), is to tell potential thieves that the radio is coded, as if that would stop them , it should flash and not be on continuously, mine flashes and there is no problem with battery drain. It's not connected to the alarm ecu, mine still flashes without the ecu.

My handbook also says it's the position of fuse 1 that determines if the radio is via the ignition or battery direct.

I would guess that if changing the fuse position doesn't help the next step is to remove the radio and see what effect that has on the battery drain.

Good luck