Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

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Old-Guy
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Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by Old-Guy »

As the Subject says "SOLVED". I know Xantias are getting fewer by the day, maybe this post will save one or two from an undeserved fate.

Over the last 8 or 9 months, The Green lady has suffered 3 starting-related problems:
  • 1. After the cam-belt jumping a tooth had been sorted, I noticed the engine was noticeably clattery on one cylinder until she warmed up http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 02#p419802

    2. Starting became more reluctant though the starter spins her over as well as ever Xantia 1.9TD splutters into life

    3. I've been unable to fix another elusive air leak in fuel system even though almost every pipe had been changed in the last few years.
I had my suspicions of the glow-plugs and even had a hardly used spare set, but until the weather turned cold a couple of weeks ago, lack of time and inclination prevented me from changing the glow-plugs. Then one cold afternoon she refused to start - just firing on one cylinder. After I had changed No2 plug (open-circuit), she eventually limped into life - horribly noisy and stuttering on 2½ cylinders until I managed to coax the revs up. Then I changed No 4 (cam-belt end) glow-plug; starting better, but air-leak now serious. The penny eventually dropped - every time the fuel inlet banjo joint had been undone, the air leak got worse.

Long story short: replacing the glow-plugs has made her start first time every time on a cold engine and the nasty clatter has gone. 2 plugs were open-circuit, 1 was 'working but apparently with a cold tip, 1 seems to be OK. Looking at the 'new' (slightly used plugs) plugs and the one good one, it seems that the tip actually catches the injector spray pattern so it IS vital that the tip heats.

The air-leak was more problematic http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=49939 to fix as the union is no longer available. My temporay solution with a pair of washing machine seals is still working and she starts on the button every time. Long term, I'll have to get a banjounion made up, unless I can find that tin of assorted fuel pipe fittings that I know contains a small selection of brass banjo fittings - blow-torch, stick of silver-solder and job's a good 'un.

Bottom Line
1. Clattery when cold, may be duff glow-plugs rather than excessive valve clearances.
2. If the obvious pipes aren't the cause of fuel draining back into the tank, check the inlet banjo union, but be careful how you tighten it and anneal the washers first.
Last edited by Old-Guy on 30 Nov 2014, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by CitroJim »

Guy, thanks. A very valuable post.

:-D
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by myglaren »

Your posts relating to the clatter and poor starting Guy.
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Old-Guy
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by Old-Guy »

myglaren wrote:Your posts relating to the clatter and poor starting Guy.
Thanks for the missing link - original post up-dated.

I have a nasty suspicion that I may have damaged one or more glow-plugs by banging the head down on the bench for inspection. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have removed the glowplugs as the last item before un-torquing the head.

This morning (Sunday) it was cold (though no frost) and damp and she hadn't been used for 6 days; started first cylinder on compression without any priming.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by citronut »

another cause of glow plug failure is if the center post is allowed to rotate as the nut holding the link cable in place is tightened,
Regards, malcolm.

current ride a BX 1.7 TZD estate
1986 MK1 BX 1.9na D Auto(in Mothman Andy's stable )
layed up roppy 1.9TD XANT estate, now gone to meet her maker
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Old-Guy
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1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by Old-Guy »

Final update. 7:30 start yesterday, temperature hovering around zero, but once again the Green Lady started first pull and ran and she no longer sounds like a can of nails when cold. My point being that good glow-plugs are essential for clean running until the engine is warm - IIRC they stay switched on at lower power until the coolant reaches 60°C
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by citroenxm »

I made a posting about breaking banjo bolts due to over tightening of them, the crack or break across the bore...

I chased a starting issue for MONTHS on a Xantia TD a couple of years ago, and found the Banjo was away. After fitting another normal service was resumed.

I may be able to find some banjo bolts Guy if thats what your wanting, off some beyond repair pumps - I know Ive got a Bosch 2.1 pump thats gone too far, and possibly a couple of Xantia VP20 (are they the ECU controlled Bosch Pumps) .. saw one in a shed at mums today..
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by CitroJim »

The VP20 is the non-ECU pump Paul, it's the AS3 that's ECU controlled....
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Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by citroenxm »

CitroJim wrote:The VP20 is the non-ECU pump Paul, it's the AS3 that's ECU controlled....

Doh.. trust me to get it the wrong way round... thanks jim.. :-D
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
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Old-Guy
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1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
x 17

Re: Xantia 1.9TD starting problems SOLVED

Post by Old-Guy »

Paul, thanks for the kind offer, but it's the banjo itself that's b______d. Banjo bolts of the right spec are fairly easily obtainable from any hydraulic specialist (like our local agricultural engineer!), but as (I'm told) the Citroen part 1563 C7 FUEL ADJUSTABLE UNION 6,5X8-82 is no longer available, it means getting someone to make one up from a banjo connector (M12 x 21 OD x 11 deep) and a short length of pipe the right size 6.5 x 8 (ID x OD).

My 'temporary' repair using a couple of washing machine connector washers is holding up well so far. This picture was taken before initial assembly, the current solution omits the lower (right-hand) white nylon washer and substitutes new black plastic washers for the elderly grey 'rubber' ones pictured. The top nylon washer is to allow the copper washer to rotate on the sealing washer without binding.

I retired (again!) at the begining of the month, Task 1 is a good clear out of all the 'might come in handy one day' stuff that hasn't and now probably won't. So far 3 well-obsolete PCs plus boxes of obsolete spares (slow CD drives, DVD-rom drives, umpteen floppy drives, assorted extension cards, modems etc etc). When I move on to the car-related stuff, maybe the tin of fuel injection bits will appear - I know there's a couple of proper cast brass banjos in there with some odd bits of copper pipe, if there's a banjo of suitable dimensions, 5 minutes with a blowtorch and the silver solder will produce a superior new one for next to nowt.
2011 Grand C4 Picasso VTR+ 1.6HDi in Kyanos Blue
1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
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